Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [sig] period eating utensils

Expand Messages
  • MHoll@aol.com
    Spoons and knives. Wood, bone, the usual materials. No forks. Predslava.
    Message 1 of 18 , Dec 2, 2000
    • 0 Attachment
      Spoons and knives. Wood, bone, the usual materials. No forks.

      Predslava.
    • Shadow
      ... I thought the concept of silverware came from Persia. It could possibly have appeared in Kievan Rus via Khazaria/the Silk Road. That s what I think
      Message 2 of 18 , Dec 3, 2000
      • 0 Attachment
        "Anne M. McKinney" wrote:

        > Out of curiosity I am wondering which eating utensils/gear would have been
        > used by the Kievan Rus, or in use in mid-thirteenth cent. Russia. Could
        > someone with more familiarity on the subject please offer some suggestions?

        I thought the concept of 'silverware' came from Persia. It could possibly have
        appeared in Kievan Rus via Khazaria/the Silk Road. That's what I think anyway.
        But probably only the nobles could have afforded it.

        Laura
      • Anne M. McKinney
        Ok, and what kind of cups/mugs/bowls did they drink out of? (REally pushing it now -_-) Once when I was in a museum I saw examples of big ladle-like bowls
        Message 3 of 18 , Dec 3, 2000
        • 0 Attachment
          Ok, and what kind of cups/mugs/bowls did they drink out of? (REally pushing
          it now -_-) Once when I was in a museum I saw examples of big ladle-like
          bowls that important people drank out of, but I don't know which time
          periods those date to or if that style was restricted to only the
          higher-ups. If not, how can I find one today? ^_^

          --Sofya Chyudka
          Thanks for all the help!
        • Anne M. McKinney
          ... can t ... of ... New ... That is more than fair. I think kovsh sounds right, by your description--they looked to me like heavily decorated, boat-shaped
          Message 4 of 18 , Dec 3, 2000
          • 0 Attachment
            > Anne, I loaned my books out, which is why I didn't reply earlier and
            can't
            > give details now -- if you give me a month I'll come back with all sorts
            of
            > pictures and dates and things. Well, month and a half, I won't do it on
            New
            > Years' Eve :).
            > Not sure what you mean by the big ladle-like thing, but I think you are
            > talking about a kovsh, which is basically a bowl with a handle. Those
            > existed in the 13th century too.
            >
            > -Dmitriy

            That is more than fair. I think kovsh sounds right, by your
            description--they looked to me like heavily decorated, boat-shaped bowls
            with handles. Thank you,
            --Sofya
          • Jenne Heise
            ... I ve seen several very late period examples of silver, round-bowled spoons carried in ornate leather or embroidered cases... -- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka
            Message 5 of 18 , Dec 3, 2000
            • 0 Attachment
              > Spoons and knives. Wood, bone, the usual materials. No forks.
              > Predslava.

              I've seen several very late period examples of silver, round-bowled spoons
              carried in ornate leather or embroidered cases...
              --
              Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka Jennifer Heise jenne@...
              disclaimer: i speak for no-one and no-one speaks for me.
              "I do my job. I refuse to be responsible for other people's managerial
              hallucinations." -- Lady Jemina Starker
            • Britta Parsons
              ... spoons ... Where have you seen these spoon cases? How late is very late period? And what did the designs on them look like? What s more, where can I
              Message 6 of 18 , Dec 3, 2000
              • 0 Attachment
                >>I've seen several very late period examples of silver, round-bowled
                spoons
                >>carried in ornate leather or embroidered cases...

                Where have you seen these spoon cases? How late is "very late period?"
                And what did the designs on them look like? What's more, where can I
                find pictures of them?

                Vasilisa Myshkina
                ________________________________________________________________
                GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
                Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
                Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
                http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
              • Jenne Heise
                ... Oh dear, I m having one of my vague moments. I _think_ one of them may be in the Russian embroidery books-- Kat ryna? Any clues? -- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka
                Message 7 of 18 , Dec 3, 2000
                • 0 Attachment
                  > >>I've seen several very late period examples of silver, round-bowled
                  > spoons
                  > >>carried in ornate leather or embroidered cases...
                  > Where have you seen these spoon cases? How late is "very late period?"
                  > And what did the designs on them look like? What's more, where can I
                  > find pictures of them?
                  > Vasilisa Myshkina

                  Oh dear, I'm having one of my vague moments. I _think_ one of them may be
                  in the Russian embroidery books-- Kat'ryna? Any clues?

                  --
                  Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka Jennifer Heise jenne@...
                  disclaimer: i speak for no-one and no-one speaks for me.
                  "I do my job. I refuse to be responsible for other people's managerial
                  hallucinations." -- Lady Jemina Starker
                • Robert J Welenc
                  ... spoons ... But surely they had eating tools before late period -- soup and suchlike is damned awful difficult to eat without a spoon! Alanna ***********
                  Message 8 of 18 , Dec 3, 2000
                  • 0 Attachment
                    At 01:55 PM 12/3/00 -0500, you wrote:
                    >> Spoons and knives. Wood, bone, the usual materials. No forks.
                    >> Predslava.
                    >
                    >I've seen several very late period examples of silver, round-bowled
                    spoons
                    >carried in ornate leather or embroidered cases...

                    But surely they had eating tools before late period -- soup and
                    suchlike is damned awful difficult to eat without a spoon!

                    Alanna
                    ***********
                    Saying of the day:
                    Politics is a rotten egg; if broken, it stinks. - Russian Proverb
                  • Dmitriy V. Ryaboy
                    Laura, Your line of reasoning is not very good, but it is true that (rich) nobles had spoons, bowls and other gear made out of silver. They were definately in
                    Message 9 of 18 , Dec 3, 2000
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Laura,
                      Your line of reasoning is not very good, but it is true that (rich) nobles
                      had spoons, bowls and other gear made out of silver. They were definately in
                      use by the 13th century.
                      Anne, I loaned my books out, which is why I didn't reply earlier and can't
                      give details now -- if you give me a month I'll come back with all sorts of
                      pictures and dates and things. Well, month and a half, I won't do it on New
                      Years' Eve :).
                      Not sure what you mean by the big ladle-like thing, but I think you are
                      talking about a kovsh, which is basically a bowl with a handle. Those
                      existed in the 13th century too.

                      -Dmitriy

                      >I thought the concept of 'silverware' came from Persia. It could possibly
                      >have
                      >appeared in Kievan Rus via Khazaria/the Silk Road. That's what I think
                      >anyway.
                      >But probably only the nobles could have afforded it.
                      >
                      >Laura
                      >
                      _____________________________________________________________________________________
                      Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
                    • Olan Mikkelsen
                      ... bowls ... I saw several examples of this type of utinsel while I was in Poland. One was made out of a what looked like a large snail shell and the
                      Message 10 of 18 , Dec 4, 2000
                      • 0 Attachment
                        <snip>

                        > That is more than fair. I think kovsh sounds right, by your
                        > description--they looked to me like heavily decorated, boat-shaped
                        bowls
                        > with handles. Thank you,

                        I saw several examples of this type of utinsel while I was in
                        Poland. One was made out of a what looked like a large snail shell
                        and the handle looked like a turtle's head. Dated xvii-xviii
                        centuries.

                        Landolf
                      • Olan Mikkelsen
                        ... spoons ... The Szlachta, or nobility, in Poland carried these in their boots during the Hussar era (xvi-xviii centuries). Some of the cases contained
                        Message 11 of 18 , Dec 4, 2000
                        • 0 Attachment
                          --- In sig@egroups.com, Jenne Heise <jenne@m...> wrote:
                          > > Spoons and knives. Wood, bone, the usual materials. No forks.
                          > > Predslava.
                          >
                          > I've seen several very late period examples of silver, round-bowled
                          spoons
                          > carried in ornate leather or embroidered cases...

                          The Szlachta, or nobility, in Poland carried these in their boots
                          during the Hussar era (xvi-xviii centuries). Some of the cases
                          contained knives and forks, too.
                          I purchased a silver spoon in Germany and have made a case for it.
                          The spoon has a rose motif on the handle that is supposedly from the
                          time of the reign of Charlemagne.

                          Landolf
                        • Olan Mikkelsen
                          ... period? ... I ... I have a picture of one in the catalog from the exhibit The Land of the Winged Horsemen . I can scan it and send it to you, if
                          Message 12 of 18 , Dec 4, 2000
                          • 0 Attachment
                            <snip>
                            > Where have you seen these spoon cases? How late is "very late
                            period?"
                            > And what did the designs on them look like? What's more, where can
                            I
                            > find pictures of them?

                            I have a picture of one in the catalog from the exhibit "The Land of
                            the Winged Horsemen". I can scan it and send it to you, if you like.

                            Landolf
                          • Kate Jones
                            ... Erm, uhh. I m remembering spoons but not spoon cases...I ll have to look. Kat ryna -- Kate Jones | I turned my world
                            Message 13 of 18 , Dec 4, 2000
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Jenne Heise sez:
                              >
                              > > Where have you seen these spoon cases? How late is "very late period?"
                              > > And what did the designs on them look like? What's more, where can I
                              > > find pictures of them?
                              > > Vasilisa Myshkina
                              >
                              > Oh dear, I'm having one of my vague moments. I _think_ one of them may be
                              > in the Russian embroidery books-- Kat'ryna? Any clues?

                              Erm, uhh. I'm remembering spoons but not spoon cases...I'll have to look.

                              Kat'ryna
                              --
                              Kate Jones | I turned my world upside-down
                              kate@... | and that's how everything landed...
                            • Britta Parsons
                              Landolf Yes, a picture would be useful. Thank you. Vasilisa ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
                              Message 14 of 18 , Dec 4, 2000
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Landolf

                                Yes, a picture would be useful. Thank you.

                                Vasilisa
                                ________________________________________________________________
                                GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
                                Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
                                Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
                                http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
                              • Jenn/Yana
                                ... Yes, it is a kovsh. Drinking-vessels with a single handle that is (usually) offset vertically and runs parallel to the ovate or boat-shaped bowl. --Yana
                                Message 15 of 18 , Dec 4, 2000
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  >> That is more than fair. I think kovsh sounds right, by your
                                  >> description--they looked to me like heavily decorated, boat-shaped
                                  >bowls
                                  >> with handles. Thank you,

                                  Yes, it is a kovsh. Drinking-vessels with a single handle that is
                                  (usually) offset vertically and runs parallel to the ovate or boat-shaped bowl.

                                  --Yana

                                  http://www.russianarts.com/fab2kovsh.html
                                  A silver-gilt and shaded cloisonné enamel kovsh decorated with acorns on
                                  dark blue background in the Pan-Slavic style. By Fabergé,
                                  Moscow,1896-1908, length - 3.25"
                                  Modern, but drool, drool.

                                  http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Delphi/6422/apc5.html
                                  Bratina and Kovsh Novgorod, 1428-1435; Moscow, 16th c. Silver
                                  If you look at the kovsh, there is a little figure at the bottom. Probably
                                  meant as a suprise for the boyar who drinks all his mead! :-)

                                  http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Delphi/6422/apc4.html
                                  Novgorod, 1428-1435; Moscow, first quarter of the 16th c. Silver Hammering,
                                  engraving, casting, gilding 17x12x5 cm; 35.5x24x5 cm
                                • Olan Mikkelsen
                                  It ll have to be this weekend when I get to my home computer. Yana, if I send the pics to you, too , can you put them in the picture archive? Landolf
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Dec 5, 2000
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    It'll have to be this weekend when I get to my home computer.

                                    Yana, if I send the pics to you, too , can you put them in the
                                    picture archive?

                                    Landolf

                                    --- In sig@egroups.com, Britta Parsons <vasalisa@j...> wrote:
                                    > Landolf
                                    >
                                    > Yes, a picture would be useful. Thank you.
                                    >
                                    > Vasilisa
                                    > ________________________________________________________________
                                    > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
                                    > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
                                    > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
                                    > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
                                  • Jenn/Yana
                                    ... Sure! I always welcome pictures for the archive. And pictures for the photo gallery of SIG people too (hint, hint). --Yana, who is awaiting the end of
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Dec 5, 2000
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      >Yana, if I send the pics to you, too , can you put them in the
                                      >picture archive?
                                      >
                                      >Landolf

                                      Sure! I always welcome pictures for the archive. And pictures for the
                                      photo gallery of SIG people too (hint, hint).

                                      --Yana, who is awaiting the end of the semester anxiously, not only because
                                      she will finally be graduating, but because she can update the Russian
                                      Knowledge Page and work on other SIG related matters. :-)
                                    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.