Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

period eating utensils

Expand Messages
  • Anne M. McKinney
    Out of curiosity I am wondering which eating utensils/gear would have been used by the Kievan Rus, or in use in mid-thirteenth cent. Russia. Could someone
    Message 1 of 18 , Dec 2, 2000
    • 0 Attachment
      Out of curiosity I am wondering which eating utensils/gear would have been
      used by the Kievan Rus, or in use in mid-thirteenth cent. Russia. Could
      someone with more familiarity on the subject please offer some suggestions?

      --Sofya Chyudka
    • MHoll@aol.com
      Spoons and knives. Wood, bone, the usual materials. No forks. Predslava.
      Message 2 of 18 , Dec 2, 2000
      • 0 Attachment
        Spoons and knives. Wood, bone, the usual materials. No forks.

        Predslava.
      • Shadow
        ... I thought the concept of silverware came from Persia. It could possibly have appeared in Kievan Rus via Khazaria/the Silk Road. That s what I think
        Message 3 of 18 , Dec 3, 2000
        • 0 Attachment
          "Anne M. McKinney" wrote:

          > Out of curiosity I am wondering which eating utensils/gear would have been
          > used by the Kievan Rus, or in use in mid-thirteenth cent. Russia. Could
          > someone with more familiarity on the subject please offer some suggestions?

          I thought the concept of 'silverware' came from Persia. It could possibly have
          appeared in Kievan Rus via Khazaria/the Silk Road. That's what I think anyway.
          But probably only the nobles could have afforded it.

          Laura
        • Anne M. McKinney
          Ok, and what kind of cups/mugs/bowls did they drink out of? (REally pushing it now -_-) Once when I was in a museum I saw examples of big ladle-like bowls
          Message 4 of 18 , Dec 3, 2000
          • 0 Attachment
            Ok, and what kind of cups/mugs/bowls did they drink out of? (REally pushing
            it now -_-) Once when I was in a museum I saw examples of big ladle-like
            bowls that important people drank out of, but I don't know which time
            periods those date to or if that style was restricted to only the
            higher-ups. If not, how can I find one today? ^_^

            --Sofya Chyudka
            Thanks for all the help!
          • Anne M. McKinney
            ... can t ... of ... New ... That is more than fair. I think kovsh sounds right, by your description--they looked to me like heavily decorated, boat-shaped
            Message 5 of 18 , Dec 3, 2000
            • 0 Attachment
              > Anne, I loaned my books out, which is why I didn't reply earlier and
              can't
              > give details now -- if you give me a month I'll come back with all sorts
              of
              > pictures and dates and things. Well, month and a half, I won't do it on
              New
              > Years' Eve :).
              > Not sure what you mean by the big ladle-like thing, but I think you are
              > talking about a kovsh, which is basically a bowl with a handle. Those
              > existed in the 13th century too.
              >
              > -Dmitriy

              That is more than fair. I think kovsh sounds right, by your
              description--they looked to me like heavily decorated, boat-shaped bowls
              with handles. Thank you,
              --Sofya
            • Jenne Heise
              ... I ve seen several very late period examples of silver, round-bowled spoons carried in ornate leather or embroidered cases... -- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka
              Message 6 of 18 , Dec 3, 2000
              • 0 Attachment
                > Spoons and knives. Wood, bone, the usual materials. No forks.
                > Predslava.

                I've seen several very late period examples of silver, round-bowled spoons
                carried in ornate leather or embroidered cases...
                --
                Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka Jennifer Heise jenne@...
                disclaimer: i speak for no-one and no-one speaks for me.
                "I do my job. I refuse to be responsible for other people's managerial
                hallucinations." -- Lady Jemina Starker
              • Britta Parsons
                ... spoons ... Where have you seen these spoon cases? How late is very late period? And what did the designs on them look like? What s more, where can I
                Message 7 of 18 , Dec 3, 2000
                • 0 Attachment
                  >>I've seen several very late period examples of silver, round-bowled
                  spoons
                  >>carried in ornate leather or embroidered cases...

                  Where have you seen these spoon cases? How late is "very late period?"
                  And what did the designs on them look like? What's more, where can I
                  find pictures of them?

                  Vasilisa Myshkina
                  ________________________________________________________________
                  GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
                  Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
                  Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
                  http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
                • Jenne Heise
                  ... Oh dear, I m having one of my vague moments. I _think_ one of them may be in the Russian embroidery books-- Kat ryna? Any clues? -- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka
                  Message 8 of 18 , Dec 3, 2000
                  • 0 Attachment
                    > >>I've seen several very late period examples of silver, round-bowled
                    > spoons
                    > >>carried in ornate leather or embroidered cases...
                    > Where have you seen these spoon cases? How late is "very late period?"
                    > And what did the designs on them look like? What's more, where can I
                    > find pictures of them?
                    > Vasilisa Myshkina

                    Oh dear, I'm having one of my vague moments. I _think_ one of them may be
                    in the Russian embroidery books-- Kat'ryna? Any clues?

                    --
                    Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka Jennifer Heise jenne@...
                    disclaimer: i speak for no-one and no-one speaks for me.
                    "I do my job. I refuse to be responsible for other people's managerial
                    hallucinations." -- Lady Jemina Starker
                  • Robert J Welenc
                    ... spoons ... But surely they had eating tools before late period -- soup and suchlike is damned awful difficult to eat without a spoon! Alanna ***********
                    Message 9 of 18 , Dec 3, 2000
                    • 0 Attachment
                      At 01:55 PM 12/3/00 -0500, you wrote:
                      >> Spoons and knives. Wood, bone, the usual materials. No forks.
                      >> Predslava.
                      >
                      >I've seen several very late period examples of silver, round-bowled
                      spoons
                      >carried in ornate leather or embroidered cases...

                      But surely they had eating tools before late period -- soup and
                      suchlike is damned awful difficult to eat without a spoon!

                      Alanna
                      ***********
                      Saying of the day:
                      Politics is a rotten egg; if broken, it stinks. - Russian Proverb
                    • Dmitriy V. Ryaboy
                      Laura, Your line of reasoning is not very good, but it is true that (rich) nobles had spoons, bowls and other gear made out of silver. They were definately in
                      Message 10 of 18 , Dec 3, 2000
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Laura,
                        Your line of reasoning is not very good, but it is true that (rich) nobles
                        had spoons, bowls and other gear made out of silver. They were definately in
                        use by the 13th century.
                        Anne, I loaned my books out, which is why I didn't reply earlier and can't
                        give details now -- if you give me a month I'll come back with all sorts of
                        pictures and dates and things. Well, month and a half, I won't do it on New
                        Years' Eve :).
                        Not sure what you mean by the big ladle-like thing, but I think you are
                        talking about a kovsh, which is basically a bowl with a handle. Those
                        existed in the 13th century too.

                        -Dmitriy

                        >I thought the concept of 'silverware' came from Persia. It could possibly
                        >have
                        >appeared in Kievan Rus via Khazaria/the Silk Road. That's what I think
                        >anyway.
                        >But probably only the nobles could have afforded it.
                        >
                        >Laura
                        >
                        _____________________________________________________________________________________
                        Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
                      • Olan Mikkelsen
                        ... bowls ... I saw several examples of this type of utinsel while I was in Poland. One was made out of a what looked like a large snail shell and the
                        Message 11 of 18 , Dec 4, 2000
                        • 0 Attachment
                          <snip>

                          > That is more than fair. I think kovsh sounds right, by your
                          > description--they looked to me like heavily decorated, boat-shaped
                          bowls
                          > with handles. Thank you,

                          I saw several examples of this type of utinsel while I was in
                          Poland. One was made out of a what looked like a large snail shell
                          and the handle looked like a turtle's head. Dated xvii-xviii
                          centuries.

                          Landolf
                        • Olan Mikkelsen
                          ... spoons ... The Szlachta, or nobility, in Poland carried these in their boots during the Hussar era (xvi-xviii centuries). Some of the cases contained
                          Message 12 of 18 , Dec 4, 2000
                          • 0 Attachment
                            --- In sig@egroups.com, Jenne Heise <jenne@m...> wrote:
                            > > Spoons and knives. Wood, bone, the usual materials. No forks.
                            > > Predslava.
                            >
                            > I've seen several very late period examples of silver, round-bowled
                            spoons
                            > carried in ornate leather or embroidered cases...

                            The Szlachta, or nobility, in Poland carried these in their boots
                            during the Hussar era (xvi-xviii centuries). Some of the cases
                            contained knives and forks, too.
                            I purchased a silver spoon in Germany and have made a case for it.
                            The spoon has a rose motif on the handle that is supposedly from the
                            time of the reign of Charlemagne.

                            Landolf
                          • Olan Mikkelsen
                            ... period? ... I ... I have a picture of one in the catalog from the exhibit The Land of the Winged Horsemen . I can scan it and send it to you, if
                            Message 13 of 18 , Dec 4, 2000
                            • 0 Attachment
                              <snip>
                              > Where have you seen these spoon cases? How late is "very late
                              period?"
                              > And what did the designs on them look like? What's more, where can
                              I
                              > find pictures of them?

                              I have a picture of one in the catalog from the exhibit "The Land of
                              the Winged Horsemen". I can scan it and send it to you, if you like.

                              Landolf
                            • Kate Jones
                              ... Erm, uhh. I m remembering spoons but not spoon cases...I ll have to look. Kat ryna -- Kate Jones | I turned my world
                              Message 14 of 18 , Dec 4, 2000
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Jenne Heise sez:
                                >
                                > > Where have you seen these spoon cases? How late is "very late period?"
                                > > And what did the designs on them look like? What's more, where can I
                                > > find pictures of them?
                                > > Vasilisa Myshkina
                                >
                                > Oh dear, I'm having one of my vague moments. I _think_ one of them may be
                                > in the Russian embroidery books-- Kat'ryna? Any clues?

                                Erm, uhh. I'm remembering spoons but not spoon cases...I'll have to look.

                                Kat'ryna
                                --
                                Kate Jones | I turned my world upside-down
                                kate@... | and that's how everything landed...
                              • Britta Parsons
                                Landolf Yes, a picture would be useful. Thank you. Vasilisa ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
                                Message 15 of 18 , Dec 4, 2000
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Landolf

                                  Yes, a picture would be useful. Thank you.

                                  Vasilisa
                                  ________________________________________________________________
                                  GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
                                  Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
                                  Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
                                  http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
                                • Jenn/Yana
                                  ... Yes, it is a kovsh. Drinking-vessels with a single handle that is (usually) offset vertically and runs parallel to the ovate or boat-shaped bowl. --Yana
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Dec 4, 2000
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    >> That is more than fair. I think kovsh sounds right, by your
                                    >> description--they looked to me like heavily decorated, boat-shaped
                                    >bowls
                                    >> with handles. Thank you,

                                    Yes, it is a kovsh. Drinking-vessels with a single handle that is
                                    (usually) offset vertically and runs parallel to the ovate or boat-shaped bowl.

                                    --Yana

                                    http://www.russianarts.com/fab2kovsh.html
                                    A silver-gilt and shaded cloisonné enamel kovsh decorated with acorns on
                                    dark blue background in the Pan-Slavic style. By Fabergé,
                                    Moscow,1896-1908, length - 3.25"
                                    Modern, but drool, drool.

                                    http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Delphi/6422/apc5.html
                                    Bratina and Kovsh Novgorod, 1428-1435; Moscow, 16th c. Silver
                                    If you look at the kovsh, there is a little figure at the bottom. Probably
                                    meant as a suprise for the boyar who drinks all his mead! :-)

                                    http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Delphi/6422/apc4.html
                                    Novgorod, 1428-1435; Moscow, first quarter of the 16th c. Silver Hammering,
                                    engraving, casting, gilding 17x12x5 cm; 35.5x24x5 cm
                                  • Olan Mikkelsen
                                    It ll have to be this weekend when I get to my home computer. Yana, if I send the pics to you, too , can you put them in the picture archive? Landolf
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Dec 5, 2000
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      It'll have to be this weekend when I get to my home computer.

                                      Yana, if I send the pics to you, too , can you put them in the
                                      picture archive?

                                      Landolf

                                      --- In sig@egroups.com, Britta Parsons <vasalisa@j...> wrote:
                                      > Landolf
                                      >
                                      > Yes, a picture would be useful. Thank you.
                                      >
                                      > Vasilisa
                                      > ________________________________________________________________
                                      > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
                                      > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
                                      > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
                                      > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
                                    • Jenn/Yana
                                      ... Sure! I always welcome pictures for the archive. And pictures for the photo gallery of SIG people too (hint, hint). --Yana, who is awaiting the end of
                                      Message 18 of 18 , Dec 5, 2000
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        >Yana, if I send the pics to you, too , can you put them in the
                                        >picture archive?
                                        >
                                        >Landolf

                                        Sure! I always welcome pictures for the archive. And pictures for the
                                        photo gallery of SIG people too (hint, hint).

                                        --Yana, who is awaiting the end of the semester anxiously, not only because
                                        she will finally be graduating, but because she can update the Russian
                                        Knowledge Page and work on other SIG related matters. :-)
                                      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.