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RE: [sig] Re: Vlachs (long)

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  • Judwiga Czarna Pika
    The Tatra mountains of Poland also boast these outfits... the men wear the white decorated shirts, the wide belts, red and white striped trousers and the
    Message 1 of 13 , Nov 2 10:24 AM
      The Tatra mountains of Poland also boast these outfits... the men wear the
      white decorated shirts, the wide belts, red and white striped trousers and
      the mountain axe also!!!
      Judwiga


      >
      >
      > >They have a distinctive national dress and in particular an
      > >unusually shaped traditional 'mountain axe' and a very
      > >wide leather belt both of which are considered very significant
      > >in there culture.
      >
      > Every region of Bohemia has its own "kroj" or folk costume. Since
      Halloween
      > has just passed, you might like to compare these lines from the original
      > "Dracula" (pub.1897)...
      >
      > ""On this [leiterwagon] were sure to be seated quite a group of
      home-coming
      > pesants, the Cszeks with their white, and the Slovaks with their coloured,
      > sheepskins, the latter carrying lance-fashion their long staves, with axe
      at
      > the end.""
      >
      > Hope some of this helps.
      >
      > BTW, if Czech is your interest, don't forget to have a look at Anez'ka's
      > Czech Knowledge Pages at
      > http://www.crosswinds.net/czech-rep/~anezka/knowledge.html and my own
      > collection of SIG links (mainly related to Bohemia & Moravia) at
      > http://www.geocities.com/alastairmillar ... and if the Czech language is
      > your thing, be sure to look at http://www.geocities.com/CzechEd (the web's
      > largest collection of links to online Czech language resources) too.
      >
      > Cheers!
      >
      > Alastair
      >
      > ---------------------------
      > Alastair Millar, BSc(Hons)
      > Consultancy and translation for the heritage industry
      > e-mail: alastair@..., http://www.skriptorium.cz
      > P.O.Box 685, CZ 111 21 Prague 1, Czech Republic
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >



      Judwiga Czarna Pika
    • catweasle
      Dear Alastair, Thank you for the erudite, detailed and gentlemanly reply. Your knowledge of these things is astounding. Yes, I visited the town you mention -
      Message 2 of 13 , Nov 2 11:13 AM
        Dear Alastair,
        Thank you for the erudite, detailed and gentlemanly reply. Your knowledge
        of these things is astounding. Yes, I visited the town you mention -
        Valas'ske Mezir'ic'i over twenty years ago during the Communist period. In
        fairness to them the town was spotless and they had built a typical Vlach
        village, [a folk museum rather like Skansen in Stockholm.] I have Moravian
        friends who live in Vsetin which is only about twenty miles from the Vlach
        cultural centre.


        It is interesting that the Vlachs are a subject of recurrent debate... but
        like you I find these little pockets of ethnicity fascinating.

        Of great interest to me also was the fact of the similarity between the name
        Vlach and the Czech name for Italians. I wonder if etymologically it could
        be that the Italians lived on the other side of the [southern] mountains and
        so the sobriquet 'Vlach' [mountain men,] was appropriate?
        Thank you for the information so patiently and generously given and also for
        the websites to follow up.

        Sincerely,

        Catweasle.
      • Alastair Millar
        Catweasle wrote... ... You re most welcome... but I confess that you caught me on a good day, I m not nearly so gentlemanly IRL! (or on the list most of the
        Message 3 of 13 , Nov 3 6:28 AM
          Catweasle wrote...

          >Thank you for the erudite, detailed and gentlemanly reply.

          You're most welcome... but I confess that you caught me on a good day, I'm
          not nearly so gentlemanly IRL! (or on the list most of the time, come to
          think of it...)

          >Your knowledge of these things is astounding.
          [shakes head vigorously]
          You're kind, but I have some advantages - like living here with a Czech wife
          I can ask questions of, and the fact that I both work in the heritage
          industry and translate a lot of historical and archaeological material, much
          (most) of which has not appeared previously in English. On the other hand,
          what little I know generally stops at the border as a result, and I'm not an
          SCA member... but you can't have everything!!!

          Do you get out to this part of the world often? I haven't visited the
          Wallachian Open-Air Museum in Roz'nov pod Radhos'tem - mainly because it's
          at the opposite end of the country and I have to rely on public transport -
          but (to crib from the back of a tourist map I translated a couple of years
          ago) it currently includes:

          ""
          The wooden township: a collection of vernacular buildings, documenting the
          lifestyle and standards of living of burgesses, bailiffs and craftsmen.
          The mill dale: an area of technical water-powered structures, including a
          mill, a fulling mill, a water-powered sawmill, an oil plant and a water
          hammer.
          The Wallachian village: a collection of residential and other buildings,
          characterising the lifestyle, economy, employment and homes of the
          inhabitants of a Wallachian village.
          ""

          FWIW the Czech word for "open-air muzeum" is <skanzen>!


          >It is interesting that the Vlachs are a subject of recurrent debate...
          >but like you I find these little pockets of ethnicity fascinating.

          There is, unfortunately, debate about whether they arrived during the
          occupation of the land by the Slavs or later (cf your Britannica quote),
          whether they came from Romania or elsewhere, and whether or not they are
          actually related to the Romanies... And of course all questions of
          race/ethnicity are controversial here...

          I think your point about "vlach" coming to be applied to Italians is
          probably right - thinking of Alpine transhumance in particular.

          >Thank you for the information so patiently and generously
          >given and also for the websites to follow up.

          My pleasure - after all, the SIG exists so that people can "share what they
          know"...

          Cheers!

          Alastair

          ---------------------------
          Alastair Millar, BSc(Hons)
          Consultancy and translation for the heritage industry
          e-mail: alastair@..., http://www.skriptorium.cz
          P.O.Box 685, CZ 111 21 Prague 1, Czech Republic
        • Robert J Welenc
          Greetings, gentle cousins! I am looking for documentation for the Romanian form of Elizabeth and am not finding a whole lot of information on Romanian names.
          Message 4 of 13 , Nov 3 4:51 PM
            Greetings, gentle cousins!

            I am looking for documentation for the Romanian form of 'Elizabeth'
            and am not finding a whole lot of information on Romanian names.

            The client believes it to be 'Elisabeta', which seems to be a logical
            form.

            Alanna
            ***********
            Saying of the day:
            Atheism is a non-prophet organization.
          • bmccoy@chapelperilous.net
            ... I ve seen both Elisabeta and Elisaveta used in reference to Sucevita Monastery in Romania (near Punta, at the edge of the Carpathinas) and a 16th
            Message 5 of 13 , Nov 3 6:40 PM
              On Fri, 3 Nov 2000, Robert J Welenc wrote:

              > I am looking for documentation for the Romanian form of 'Elizabeth'
              > and am not finding a whole lot of information on Romanian names.
              >
              > The client believes it to be 'Elisabeta', which seems to be a logical
              > form.

              I've seen both 'Elisabeta' and 'Elisaveta' used in reference to Sucevita
              Monastery in Romania (near Punta, at the edge of the Carpathinas) and a
              16th century woman of that name to whom the monastery was dedicated to --
              she apparently murdered her husband so her two sones could inherit the
              throne.

              Check out this:

              http://www.rotravel.com/romania/monasteries/sucev.htm

              That should get you started.

              Istvan
              http://www.chapelperilous.net
              ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
              Life is a hospital in which every patient is possessed by the desire to
              change his bed.
              -- Charles Baudelaire
            • vespirus@socrates.berkeley.edu
              The series of Teach Yourself Books now has a volume called Beginner s Russian Script , which teaches the basics of reading Cyrillic (printed and
              Message 6 of 13 , Nov 24 5:19 PM
                The series of "Teach Yourself Books" now has a volume called "Beginner's
                Russian Script", which teaches the basics of reading Cyrillic (printed and
                handwritten) one step at a time. I've always had trouble with Cyrillic,
                and the book has helped me already, even though I've only had it a few
                days. I'd recommend it for anyone wanting to learn a language (such as
                Russian) that uses Cyrillic, or for anyone wanting to teach a class on the
                subject. It's in paperback, and costs only $12.95. (ISBN 0-658-00950-8)

                --Walraven
              • Britta Parsons
                The Teach Yourself series is pretty good; anyone know if there is an equivalent for learning Old Church Slavonic? Vasilisa Myshkina
                Message 7 of 13 , Nov 24 7:30 PM
                  The "Teach Yourself" series is pretty good; anyone know if there is an
                  equivalent for learning Old Church Slavonic?

                  Vasilisa Myshkina
                  ________________________________________________________________
                  GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
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                • MHoll@aol.com
                  In a message dated 11/24/2000 9:35:08 PM Central Standard Time, ... No, I think they re only for modern languages. Predslava.
                  Message 8 of 13 , Nov 24 8:43 PM
                    In a message dated 11/24/2000 9:35:08 PM Central Standard Time,
                    vasalisa@... writes:

                    > The "Teach Yourself" series is pretty good; anyone know if there is an
                    > equivalent for learning Old Church Slavonic?

                    No, I think they're only for modern languages.

                    Predslava.
                  • timbo@marcon.org
                    A friend sent me this. HOT GAME OF THE DAY European Wars: Cossacks Go to war in 16th century Europe http://cgi.zdnet.com/slink?62734:1743488
                    Message 9 of 13 , Nov 25 12:44 AM
                      A friend sent me this.

                      HOT GAME OF THE DAY
                      European Wars: Cossacks
                      Go to war in 16th century Europe
                      http://cgi.zdnet.com/slink?62734:1743488
                    • V. J. Boitchenko
                      I know there is a Church Slavonic E-Tutor web site at http://www.orthodoxepubsoc.org/ I do not know if it is any good since I speak Russian and have a good
                      Message 10 of 13 , Nov 26 10:37 AM
                        I know there is a Church Slavonic E-Tutor web site at
                         
                         
                        I do not know if it is any good since I speak Russian and have a good command of Church Slavonic and the Tutor starts from the very basics, and as far as I understand, it is targeted to English speaking audience. I heard that it is rather good though.
                         
                        There are also various resources on the internet where you can download fonts for Church Slavonic and Slavonic style English fonts.
                         
                        yours,
                         
                        v
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        Sent: Friday, November 24, 2000 10:30 PM
                        Subject: Re: [sig] Russian Script

                        The "Teach Yourself" series is pretty good; anyone know if there is an
                        equivalent for learning Old Church Slavonic?

                        Vasilisa Myshkina
                        ________________________________________________________________
                        GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
                        Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
                        Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
                        http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

                      • Dmitriy V. Ryaboy
                        I looked at the site http://www.orthodoxepubsoc.org/ and the descrption says that it only teaches how to pronounce prayers and such, but does not teach
                        Message 11 of 13 , Nov 26 11:08 AM
                          I looked at the site http://www.orthodoxepubsoc.org/ and the descrption says
                          that it only teaches how to pronounce prayers and such, but does not teach
                          vocabularly or grammar. Probably useful for american orthodox, but not for
                          us..
                          Do you know by any chance a good church slavonic tutorial or textbook in
                          (modern) Russian? Russian is my native language, print or internet is
                          equally good. I found this: http://chslav.hypermart.net/ while writing the
                          e-mail, has anyone used the stuff there?

                          Same question, but for Old Russian (Drevnerusskiy)?

                          -Dmitriy
                          Shelomianin(SCA)
                          Ryaboy (Mundanely)



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                        • V. J. Boitchenko
                          Dmitriy! To the best of my knowledge the Old Russian has never been codified. Besides that, there would be different stages in the development of the Old
                          Message 12 of 13 , Nov 26 11:53 AM
                            Dmitriy!
                             
                            To the best of my knowledge the Old Russian has never been codified. Besides that, there would be different stages in the development of the Old Russian and it would be very difficult to do.
                             
                            As to Church Slavonic, there are all kinds of synodal editions and their translations into English. I can only suggest that you browse the web or if you are on the East Coast by any chance you can check at any of the three Russian seminaries whichever one is closest to you. Many church websites will provide various links for book stores as well.
                             
                            I would never recommend anyone with no knowledge of Russian or any other Slavic language to try more than reading rules.
                             
                            Best wishes,
                             
                            v
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2000 7:08 PM
                            Subject: Re: [sig] Russian Script

                            I looked at the site http://www.orthodoxepubsoc.org/ and the descrption says
                            that it only teaches how to pronounce prayers and such, but does not teach
                            vocabularly or grammar.  Probably useful for american orthodox, but not for
                            us..
                            Do you know by any chance a good church slavonic tutorial or textbook in
                            (modern) Russian?  Russian is my native language, print or internet is
                            equally good.  I found this: http://chslav.hypermart.net/ while writing the
                            e-mail, has anyone used the stuff there?

                            Same question, but for Old Russian (Drevnerusskiy)?

                            -Dmitriy
                               Shelomianin(SCA)
                               Ryaboy (Mundanely)



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