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Kalita, as in Ivan

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  • Christine Jacobs
    [Liudmila wrote:] This is a quote from my recent notes for a Collegium class, based on Rabinovich in Drevniaia Odezhda Narodov Vostochnoi Evropy (Ancient
    Message 1 of 6 , Oct 5, 2000
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      [Liudmila wrote:]
      > This is a quote from my recent notes for a Collegium class, based on
      > Rabinovich in Drevniaia Odezhda Narodov Vostochnoi Evropy (Ancient Dress
      of
      > Eastern Europeans):
      >
      > "Since neither men nor women had pockets (men's clothing acquired
      detachable
      > pokets, "kisheni," and sewn-on pockets, "zepi," by the end of the period),
      > belts served to hold various objects, just like in the West. A belt box of
      > precious metal, "kaptorga," or a leather pouch, "kalita" or "moshna,"
      could
      > serve as a purse. Kalita was not unlike purses worn on a belt or over the
      > shoulder in Western Europe, except that it was highly ornamented. "

      I may be confused, but if "kalita" is a pouch, why was Ivan Danilovich
      (Prince of Moscow 1325-1340) called Ivan Kalita?? I get Yuri Dolgorukii and
      Yaroslav Mudryy, but Ivan the Pouch makes no sense to me. :) What am I
      missing?

      BTW, I'm taking a course called "The Anthropological History of Russia from
      the 13th to the 17th Century." Nyah nyah! :)

      -- Kseniia Smol'nyanina

      ****************************************
      Kseniia Smol'nyanina mka:Christine Jacobs
      Mountain Freehold chrstnj@...
      http://www.geocities.com/~chrstnj
      ****************************************



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    • Dmitriy V. Ryaboy
      ... Ivan Money-bags. Does this make more sense? :) -Dmitriy Shelomianin wishing he had some of those right now..
      Message 2 of 6 , Oct 5, 2000
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        >I may be confused, but if "kalita" is a pouch, why was Ivan Danilovich
        >(Prince of Moscow 1325-1340) called Ivan Kalita?? I get Yuri Dolgorukii
        >and
        >Yaroslav Mudryy, but Ivan the Pouch makes no sense to me. :) What am I
        >missing?

        Ivan Money-bags.

        Does this make more sense? :)

        -Dmitriy Shelomianin
        wishing he had some of those right now..
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      • Jenn/Yana
        Kseniia Smol nyanina ... And of course, you will be handing out the notes once you get back... --Yana (nyah, nyah, nyah)
        Message 3 of 6 , Oct 5, 2000
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          Kseniia Smol'nyanina
          >BTW, I'm taking a course called "The Anthropological History of Russia from
          >the 13th to the 17th Century." Nyah nyah! :)


          And of course, you will be handing out the notes once you get back...

          --Yana (nyah, nyah, nyah)
        • LiudmilaV@aol.com
          In a message dated 10/5/2000 2:18:09 AM Pacific Daylight Time, chrstnj@geocities.com writes:
          Message 4 of 6 , Oct 5, 2000
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            In a message dated 10/5/2000 2:18:09 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
            chrstnj@... writes:

            << I may be confused, but if "kalita" is a pouch, why was Ivan Danilovich
            (Prince of Moscow 1325-1340) called Ivan Kalita?? I get Yuri Dolgorukii and
            Yaroslav Mudryy, but Ivan the Pouch makes no sense to me. :) What am I
            missing? >>

            That's exactly why, actually. Kalita is where you'd keep your valuables, and
            Grand Prince Ivan Daniilovich was quite good at acquiring and keeping the
            valuables. There is an alternative explanation (by Karamzin, for example),
            that proposes that to the contrary, he was very charitable and always kept a
            kalita full of coin for the poor. Take your pick.

            Liudmila
          • Christine Jacobs
            ... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com
            Message 5 of 6 , Oct 5, 2000
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              > Kseniia Smol'nyanina
              > >BTW, I'm taking a course called "The Anthropological History of Russia
              from
              > >the 13th to the 17th Century." Nyah nyah! :)
              >
              >
              > And of course, you will be handing out the notes once you get back...
              >
              > --Yana (nyah, nyah, nyah)


              Let's wait and see if I pass the exam, or more immediately, manage to not
              make a fool of myself trying to read a paper (doklad) in class next week!

              -- Kseniia

              ****************************************
              Kseniia Smol'nyanina mka:Christine Jacobs
              Mountain Freehold chrstnj@...
              http://www.geocities.com/~chrstnj
              ****************************************



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              Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
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            • MHoll@aol.com
              In a message dated 10/5/2000 10:22:19 AM Central Daylight Time, ... and ... example), ... a ... Well, considering that nicknames are seldom flattering... I d
              Message 6 of 6 , Oct 6, 2000
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                In a message dated 10/5/2000 10:22:19 AM Central Daylight Time,
                LiudmilaV@... writes:

                > That's exactly why, actually. Kalita is where you'd keep your valuables,
                and
                > Grand Prince Ivan Daniilovich was quite good at acquiring and keeping the
                > valuables. There is an alternative explanation (by Karamzin, for
                example),
                > that proposes that to the contrary, he was very charitable and always kept
                a
                > kalita full of coin for the poor. Take your pick.

                Well, considering that nicknames are seldom flattering... I'd say Karamzin
                was too generous...

                Predslava.
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