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Re: [sig] Kaftans

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  • Shadow
    ... I thought a Kaftan was a long coat... sort of like a bathrobe but not made out of fuzzy bathrobe material. To my knowledge it was worn by Turkic peoples
    Message 1 of 6 , Jul 4, 2000
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      Jenn Ridley wrote:

      > On Mon, 03 Jul 2000 22:30:04 PDT, "Dmitriy V. Ryaboy"
      > <dvryaboy@...> wrote:
      >
      > >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=371058483
      > >Anyone care to explain to the lady what a kaftan is? I would, but don't have
      > >the resources handy to explain well enough.
      >

      > OK, it's not appropriate for sca/renn faires, but it is what is
      > currently called a kaftan....I've seen them all over. In general use,
      > a kaftan has come to mean any straight cut, loose fitting garment with
      > an ethnic cut....I've seen patterns for "kaftans" from the '30's that
      > look like that one.....
      >
      > stasia/jenn

      I thought a Kaftan was a long coat... sort of like a bathrobe but not made out of
      fuzzy bathrobe material. To my knowledge it was worn by Turkic peoples (including
      Khazars) and by Ashkenazic Jews in Poland/Russia. In one of the "costume" plates
      linked from the SIG page, there is a picture of Crimean Tatars, some of whom are
      wearing such a garment.
      http://www.siue.edu/COSTUMES/PLATE125AX.HTML

      Laura Woodswalker/Leah Kizil-Ivri
    • Shadow
      ... The thing on E-bay doesn t look authentic because of the strange patchworky decoration pattern. Other than that, from what I can see, the main reason why
      Message 2 of 6 , Jul 4, 2000
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        Jenn Ridley wrote:

        > >
        > >I thought a Kaftan was a long coat... sort of like a bathrobe but not made out of
        > >fuzzy bathrobe material. To my knowledge it was worn by Turkic peoples (including
        > >Khazars) and by Ashkenazic Jews in Poland/Russia. In one of the "costume" plates
        > >linked from the SIG page, there is a picture of Crimean Tatars, some of whom are
        > >wearing such a garment.
        > >http://www.siue.edu/COSTUMES/PLATE125AX.HTML
        > >
        > historically, you are correct. In current usage, that's not what
        > "kaftan" means, at least as far as I can tell...as I said, I've seen
        > sewing patterns for "kaftans" from the 30's that have the same cut as
        > the item on eBay. It may be wrong, but that's the current usage....

        The thing on E-bay doesn't look authentic because of the strange patchworky decoration
        pattern. Other than that,
        from what I can see, the main reason why it shouldn't be called a 'kaftan' but rather
        a 'tunic' is that it doesn't open down the front. Is this correct, that the difference
        between a Kaftan & a tunic is that a kaftan opens all the way down the front?
        If so, I can take my old tunics & cut them down the front & make them into kaftans,
        thus recycling my old garb!

        Leah
      • Jenn Ridley
        ... historically, you are correct. In current usage, that s not what kaftan means, at least as far as I can tell...as I said, I ve seen sewing patterns for
        Message 3 of 6 , Jul 4, 2000
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          On Tue, 04 Jul 2000 08:59:04 +0000, Shadow <shadow42@...> wrote:
          >Jenn Ridley wrote:
          >> On Mon, 03 Jul 2000 22:30:04 PDT, "Dmitriy V. Ryaboy"
          >> <dvryaboy@...> wrote:
          >>
          >> >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=371058483
          >> >Anyone care to explain to the lady what a kaftan is? I would, but don't have
          >> >the resources handy to explain well enough.
          >>
          >> OK, it's not appropriate for sca/renn faires, but it is what is
          >> currently called a kaftan....I've seen them all over. In general use,
          >> a kaftan has come to mean any straight cut, loose fitting garment with
          >> an ethnic cut....I've seen patterns for "kaftans" from the '30's that
          >> look like that one.....
          >
          >I thought a Kaftan was a long coat... sort of like a bathrobe but not made out of
          >fuzzy bathrobe material. To my knowledge it was worn by Turkic peoples (including
          >Khazars) and by Ashkenazic Jews in Poland/Russia. In one of the "costume" plates
          >linked from the SIG page, there is a picture of Crimean Tatars, some of whom are
          >wearing such a garment.
          >http://www.siue.edu/COSTUMES/PLATE125AX.HTML
          >
          historically, you are correct. In current usage, that's not what
          "kaftan" means, at least as far as I can tell...as I said, I've seen
          sewing patterns for "kaftans" from the 30's that have the same cut as
          the item on eBay. It may be wrong, but that's the current usage....

          stasia
          ---
          Jenn Ridley
          jenn.ridley@...
        • Jenn Ridley
          ... In *current* American usage (not the emphasis on *current*), it *is* a kaftan. Kaftans don t open down the front. They pull over, with a slit down the
          Message 4 of 6 , Jul 4, 2000
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            On Tue, 04 Jul 2000 11:10:18 +0000, Shadow <shadow42@...> wrote:
            >
            >The thing on E-bay doesn't look authentic because of the strange patchworky decoration
            >pattern. Other than that,
            >from what I can see, the main reason why it shouldn't be called a 'kaftan' but rather
            >a 'tunic' is that it doesn't open down the front.

            In *current* American usage (not the emphasis on *current*), it *is* a
            kaftan. Kaftans don't open down the front. They pull over, with a
            slit down the front (very like a period tunic), and they're usually
            full length.

            In current American usage, a tunic is a long top that comes down past
            hip level; it may be button front or pullover.

            The seller is calling it what she should (in current american usage,
            based on the usage I've seen in catalogs and stores) be calling it.
            It's not correct from a historical point of view, and she probably
            should not be selling it as SCA wear, *but* it is what most Americans
            currently call a kaftan.

            jenn
            ---
            Jenn Ridley
            jenn.ridley@...
          • Dmitriy V. Ryaboy
            Wow. I had no idea kaftan is actually a word in English. Five years in the country, never heard it used other than in that Russian coat-thingie context.
            Message 5 of 6 , Jul 4, 2000
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              Wow. I had no idea "kaftan" is actually a word in English. Five years in the
              country, never heard it used other than in "that Russian coat-thingie"
              context. Live and learn. I loked it up in the dictionary, Jenn is right.
              Guess I shouldn't be too surprised after that pirozhki commercial a couple
              years back ("No, it's not a Russian dog." "Woof!")
              Still doesn't make it "right" right, though.

              Dmitriy

              >From: Jenn Ridley <jridley@...>
              >In current American usage, a tunic is a long top that comes down past
              >hip level; it may be button front or pullover.
              >
              >The seller is calling it what she should (in current american usage,
              >based on the usage I've seen in catalogs and stores) be calling it.
              >It's not correct from a historical point of view, and she probably
              >should not be selling it as SCA wear, *but* it is what most Americans
              >currently call a kaftan.
              >
              >jenn
              >---
              >Jenn Ridley
              >jenn.ridley@...

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            • Robert J Welenc
              ... You generally see it (or did when they were popular) spelled caftan . Alanna *********** Saying of the day: What the caterpillar calls the end, the
              Message 6 of 6 , Jul 4, 2000
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                At 10:33 AM 7/4/00 PDT, you wrote:
                >
                >Wow. I had no idea "kaftan" is actually a word in English.

                You generally see it (or did when they were popular) spelled
                'caftan'.

                Alanna
                ***********
                Saying of the day:
                What the caterpillar calls the end, the butterfly calls the
                beginning.
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