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Great Moravia

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  • Alastair Millar
    OK, I think it s in a presentable state now, so... My lords, ladies, gentlemen, and sundry others, allow me to humbly present, for your reference and
    Message 1 of 7 , May 10, 2000
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      OK, I think it's in a presentable state now, so...

      My lords, ladies, gentlemen, and sundry others, allow me to humbly present,
      for your reference and enjoyment, the new Great Moravia timeline at
      www.geocities.com/alastairmillar/greatmoravia1.html

      At the risk of leeting the humility slip a bit, this is the most
      comprehensive survey of Great Moravian history currently available anywhere
      on the web, with over 50 dateable events from between the years 830 and 907,
      and some background info. as well.

      This is, though, a work in progress - so all comments, constructive
      criticism, howls of protest, disagreements, corrections, alterations,
      additions, complaints etc. are welcome!

      Enjoy!

      Alastair

      ----------------------------------------------------
      A far-away country of which we know little:
      "Bohemia: a desert country near the sea"
      [Shakespeare: Winter's Tale, III.iii, stage direction]
      ----------------------------------------------------
      Eclectic SIG links: www.geocities.com/alastairmillar
    • Alastair Millar
      Thanks for the kind words, Janos, and even more thanks for the ideas - I ll work most of them in, I think. The alternating colours thing is brilliant, and I
      Message 2 of 7 , May 10, 2000
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        Thanks for the kind words, Janos, and even more thanks for the ideas - I'll
        work most of them in, I think. The alternating colours thing is brilliant,
        and I would never have thought of it by my lonesome... but I admit that when
        I wrote it, I just *knew* that you were going to mention the 920AD thing!!
        :-)

        >I find it odd that Moravia started out important and ended up a
        >dependency of Bohemia, and just a margravate (this is after your timeline).
        [grin]
        The "slings and arrows of outrageous fortune"... I guess a comparable
        example might be the Avar khaganate, which vanished even more completely
        despite having been a major player in its day...

        >This is almost certainly the reason there's nothing on the web...no insult
        >mean to anybody, but Moravia is essentially (and unfortunately)
        >unimportant in the year 2000 so no one has studied it (until now).

        I partly agree. Moravia is relatively unimportant in terms of geopolitics
        these days, and is certainly not at the top of most people's lists of
        interests... except for a few obsessives like myself of course! ;-D

        Nevertheless, quite a lot of work HAS been done on Great Moravia, just not
        in English. And for various reasons, what there is has not been *drawn
        together*, let alone been put up on the web. Despite a number of specialist
        studies - on things like particular settlement agglomerations, trade, SS
        Constantine/Cyril & Methodius, jewellery - there is just no reasonably
        detailed overview in any langauge (the folk at the Inst. of Archaeology in
        Brno have been plotting something like this for years, but it's never
        happened).

        If/when I get the time I'll try to summarise some of the other stuff for the
        list and/or Slovo and/or the pages. Jewellery and trade take my fancy, for
        instance. But obviously, it's going to take a LONG time... so thanks for the
        encouragement!

        Take care

        Alastair

        ----------------------------------------------------
        A far-away country of which we know little:
        "Bohemia: a desert country near the sea"
        [Shakespeare: Winter's Tale, III.iii, stage direction]
        ----------------------------------------------------
        Eclectic SIG links: www.geocities.com/alastairmillar
      • Barcsi Janos
        Alastair: I missed one question in yesterday s review. Your page shows: 889 Territories of the Lusatian Serbs acknowledge Svatopluk s suzerainty. Shouldn t
        Message 3 of 7 , May 11, 2000
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          Alastair:

          I missed one question in yesterday's review.

          Your page shows:

          889
          Territories of the Lusatian Serbs acknowledge Svatopluk's suzerainty.

          Shouldn't that be Sorbs? (I'm afraid Slobo Milosevich may be gathering his army to regain his Lusatian homeland!)

          I'm glad my comments helped. I find Bohemia and Moravia interesting, and you're a bad influence on me.

          Janos

          _____________________________________________________________
          Get Paid to Surf http://all.frodo.com
        • Alastair Millar
          Janos wrote... ... Wups! Sorry about that - in Czech they re all Srby and I let the wrong vowel slip in. If someone wishes to slap my wrist, I promise not to
          Message 4 of 7 , May 11, 2000
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            Janos wrote...

            >Shouldn't that be Sorbs?
            Wups! Sorry about that - in Czech they're all Srby and I let the wrong vowel
            slip in. If someone wishes to slap my wrist, I promise not to enjoy it TOO
            much... ;-)

            >I find Bohemia and Moravia interesting,
            Ah well, the grass is always greener on the other side of the
            socioethnopolitical boundary... at least, I assume that's why the Magyar
            hordes were so intent on causing havoc in rolling hills of southern
            Moravia...

            >and you're a bad influence on me.
            Guilty as charged... [grin]

            Thanks again

            Alastair

            ------------------------------------------------------------------------
            A far-away country of which we know little:
            "Though the latitude's rather uncertain, And the longitude also is vague,
            The persons I pity who know not the city, The beautiful city of Prague."
            [William Jeffrey Prowse (1836-1870), 'The City of Prague']
            ------------------------------------------------------------------------
            Eclectic SIG links: www.geocities.com/alastairmillar
          • Alastair Millar
            M lady Yana writes... ... Hurrah! :-) Thank you! ... Erm, Moravia wasn t in the list - although Moldova (sandwiched uncomfortably between Ukraine and Romania,
            Message 5 of 7 , Sep 7, 2002
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              M'lady Yana writes...

              >I've added Great Moravia to the list of countries/nations/whatever

              Hurrah! :-)
              Thank you!

              > What is the difference between Moravia (already in the list) and
              > Great Moravia?

              Erm, Moravia wasn't in the list - although Moldova (sandwiched
              uncomfortably between Ukraine and Romania, these days), is...

              Moravia is the term applied to most of what is now the eastern half of the
              Czech Republic - bounded by Silesia to the north, Bohemia to the west,
              Slovakia to the east and Austria to the south. The Moravian dialect is
              generally regarded as the "purest" form of Czech, and the region tends to
              have a higher rate of religious observance than the rest of the country.
              Moravians certainly regard themselves as being distinct from (Bohemian)
              Czechs, although I don't think a case for a separate ethnic identity could
              be seriously made.

              Great Moravia was a political entity, rather than an ethnic one - and is
              the first known Slavic pseudo-state in Central Europe (not counting Sammo's
              short-lived "empire", about which we know damn all), having come into
              existence in the 800's AD. Svatopluk of Moravia annexed the petty tribal
              lands of the Bohemian Czechs in about 882, installing the Premylsid
              Bor'ivoj (probably great grandfather of Wenceslas and Boleslav the Cruel)
              as his regent - and reinstalling him by force when the locals got uppity a
              year later. It was to Great Moravia that SS Constantine/Cyril & Methodius
              went, and it was from Great Moravia that Christianity got its foothold in
              Bohemia (Bor'ivoj was christened before being installed, and built
              Bohemia's first stone church at the stronghold of Levy Hradec, north of
              Prague and its second at what would later become Prague Castle.

              At its greatest extent Great Moravia included all of Bohemia and Moravia, a
              slice of Silesia, Pannonia, the Tisza valley, and overlordship of the
              Lusatian Sorbs... The Czech Knowledge Pages include an excellent timeline
              of Great Moravian history (OK, so I'm biased!)

              HIH

              Alastair
            • Yana
              ... Ah, I see my mistake. Moravia _is_ on the list of countries in the _description_ of the group, but not in the _FAQ_ (note to self: read posts more
              Message 6 of 7 , Sep 7, 2002
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                At 02:05 AM 9/7/2002, you wrote:
                >Erm, Moravia wasn't in the list - although Moldova (sandwiched
                >uncomfortably between Ukraine and Romania, these days), is...


                Ah, I see my mistake. Moravia _is_ on the list of countries in the
                _description_ of the group, but not in the _FAQ_ (note to self: read posts
                more closely). I am adding Great Moravia to the FAQ as we speak. And
                Alastair, can you send me the URL for the Czech page again? I seem to have
                misplaced my brain somewhere...

                --Yana
              • alastairmillar
                Hi Yana! Sorry for the delay in replying, my ISP is upgrading it s smtp and pop3 servers at the moment, so I m not receiving or able to send mail from my
                Message 7 of 7 , Sep 10, 2002
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                  Hi Yana!

                  Sorry for the delay in replying, my ISP is "upgrading" it's smtp and
                  pop3 servers at the moment, so I'm not receiving or able to send mail
                  from my regular account (*grumble*). (This is from the yahoogroups
                  website...)

                  > Alastair, can you send me the URL for the Czech page again?

                  Here it is:

                  http://scholar76.tripod.com/czech/

                  And very good it is too, m'Lady Isabelle should feel proud of herself!

                  Cheers!

                  Alastair
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