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wooden spoons (was Re:couple of questions)

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  • Dmitriy V. Ryaboy
    ... Sure. You were going to put some pictures of that spoon on your website, remember? :-) I looked through the chapter in Byt and Kul tura that deals with
    Message 1 of 3 , May 1, 2000
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      >From: Jenne Heise <jenne@...>
      >BTW, someone remind me to take some kind of picture of my first
      >attempt to imitate the painted wooden spoons from this book, and
      >put it on the web. I have to do some more research; one of the judges in
      >the A&S contest I entered it in claimed in her judges' notes that it should
      >be lacquer rather than paint, but the book does not say, and unfortunately,
      >the judge did not give me a reference to follow up on the use of lacquer in
      >early Russia.

      Sure. You were going to put some pictures of that spoon on your website,
      remember? :-)

      I looked through the chapter in "Byt and Kul'tura" that deals with spoons;
      no mention of lacquer.
      There is mention of painted spoons, however -- two were found in Novgorod
      and are dated 14th century. One has complicated ornaments on the dish, and
      the handle is not painted; another has ornaments on the handle and a
      griffon-type animal (not quite sure what it is.. looks like a griffin) in
      the dish. The one with the griffin is missing about a quarter of the dish --
      it split where the handle flares out into the spoon itself (sorry, i don't
      know how to describe it better).
      Most spoons listed in the book are decorated with carvings (if at all).
      None of the other books I have available at themoment say anything on the
      matter.

      I am afraid the judge was thinking of the traditional tourist spoons sold
      all over Russia and in New York right next to the matreshka dolls.. Ask for
      documentation, though, she might know something I don't (heck, I don't know
      anything, I just have good books handy :). In either case, your use of paint
      is completely justified.

      Udachi,
      Dmitriy Shelomianin


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    • Jenne Heise
      ... Thanks. The book I used has more Novgorod spoons in it. They appear to be carved and then painted. Do you have a page number citation or something for
      Message 2 of 3 , May 4, 2000
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        > I looked through the chapter in "Byt and Kul'tura" that deals with spoons;
        > no mention of lacquer.
        > There is mention of painted spoons, however -- two were found in Novgorod
        > and are dated 14th century. One has complicated ornaments on the dish, and
        > the handle is not painted; another has ornaments on the handle and a
        > griffon-type animal (not quite sure what it is.. looks like a griffin) in
        > the dish. The one with the griffin is missing about a quarter of the dish --
        > it split where the handle flares out into the spoon itself (sorry, i don't
        > know how to describe it better).

        Thanks. The book I used has more Novgorod spoons in it. They appear to be
        carved and then painted.

        Do you have a page number citation or something for this? It would help a
        lot to be able to cite it, even if I can't read it.

        > I am afraid the judge was thinking of the traditional tourist spoons sold
        > all over Russia and in New York right next to the matreshka dolls.. Ask for
        > documentation, though, she might know something I don't (heck, I don't know
        > anything, I just have good books handy :). In either case, your use of paint
        > is completely justified.

        That's what I was worried about, that lacquer was a late period or
        postperiod technique. I'm going to check the books on Russian folk art
        that we have and see if I can follow up more on this. I really appreciate
        you checking into this. The archaelogist that wrote "Wooden Artefacts from
        Medieval Novgorod" specifically mentioned paint, rather than lacquer, but
        I couldn't tell whether they might have said paint and meant lacquer.

        Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka Jennifer Heise jenne@...
        disclaimer: i speak for no-one and no-one speaks for me.
        "Oh it's all too much, too grim, too lovely, too -- how should
        I put this? It's general chaos." -- Edward Gorey
      • Dmitriy V. Ryaboy
        ... Sure. The article is R.L Rosenfeldt, Domashnyaya Utvar : Lozhki published in _Drevnyaya Rus : Byt i Kul tura_, page 42. B.A. Kolchin, T.I. Makarova,
        Message 3 of 3 , May 4, 2000
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          >From: Jenne Heise <jenne@...>
          >Do you have a page number citation or something for this? It would help a
          >lot to be able to cite it, even if I can't read it.


          Sure.
          The article is
          R.L Rosenfeldt, "Domashnyaya Utvar': Lozhki"

          published in
          _Drevnyaya Rus': Byt i Kul'tura_, page 42. B.A. Kolchin, T.I. Makarova,
          editors. Moscow, Nauka, 1997.

          Sorry if I messed up the bibliographical format..

          Dmitriy Shelomianin
          who might be changing his name soon, having been hit yesterday with a
          fantastic persona idea.


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