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Re: Slavic migration - not true?

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  • Alastair Millar
    ... As noted previously, some archaeologists are interpreting the evidence as suggesting that the Slavs as a group formed in the 4th-5th centuries somewhere on
    Message 1 of 1 , Mar 2, 2000
      Tom wrote:

      >I ask if anyone knows of any archaeological evidence to support
      >the Priapet origin theory?

      As noted previously, some archaeologists are interpreting the evidence as
      suggesting that the Slavs as a group formed in the 4th-5th centuries
      somewhere on the periphery of the Chernyakov culture in the Ukraine. My
      knowledge of things east of the Carpathians is hazy at best, so whether this
      near the Pripyet I don't know (and I'm too lazy to get the atlas out!!!).

      >If there can be made a cogent argument for the Slavs simply traipsing
      >through eastern Europe,

      Yes there can. The earliest Czech settlers can be traced through Malopolska
      and into Bohemia by the occurrence of Prague-Korc'ak type pottery, for
      example.

      > to settle in what history and archaeology know to be already
      >populated and controlled territories?

      Populated? yes. Controlled? no.
      The area between the Merovingian Empire and the Avar Khaganate was in flux
      in the sixth century, with no clear control being exercised by anyone.
      Indeed, Bohemia - despite domination by Charlemagne and the Great Moravian
      Empire - had no real centralised government until the 10th century
      Pr'emyslids started bashing heads together.

      Bear in mind, too, that much of Central Europe (Bohemia certainly) was
      covered in dense forests at this time, making real "control" rather
      difficult.

      >The Migration theory seems to have arisen within the last 150 years [snip]

      No, this is absolutely not the case.
      Czech myths and folklore from as far back as the Middle Ages, for example,
      have concerned the arrival of Forefather Czech, his brother Lech, and their
      tribe in the lands around R'ip Mount (which, FWIW, I can see from my window
      as I type this...). As I noted earlier, a 300-year old inscription added to
      an earlier painting now in the Cheb (Eger) Museum confirms the acceptance of
      this tale.

      History and archaeology have always been used as political tools,
      everywhere, and by using only selected pieces of evidence can be employed to
      support just about anything.

      My personal (and perhaps subjective) inlcination is to agree that the
      "Mother Russia" approach is still too prevalent, and is (& always has been)
      a primarily political phenomenon.

      >I am reading a very deeply-researched and extensively-footnoted
      >book, _VENETI_ by Jozko Savli, Matej Bor, and Ivan Tomazic,
      >which presents in great detail a body of evidence suggesting a much
      >older Slavic presence in central Europe

      But what is the political background to this book, for example? Do the
      authors manage to be reasonably objective despite their nationality? Maybe
      they are, but what of the sources they are using? When were these written?
      What were the politics at the time?

      (All sources must be looked at critically, and interpretaions even more so.
      Even the internationally-admired and decorated Tr'es'tik, much as I like him
      as a person, lapses into subjective nationalism occasionally, for instance.)

      Another thought:
      the Slavs would certainly have assimilated the less-organised inhabitants of
      the territories into which they moved - so that some cultural traits of the
      subsumed groups might crop up in Slavic culture later. If these traits were
      assumed to ALWAYS have been Slavic because of their occurrence in later
      Slavic contexts, then this would give the illusion of an earlier Slavic
      presence... especially to someone who was looking for evidence of such.

      Anyway, that's more than enough from me today. Must awa'.

      Yours aye

      Alastair

      ----------------------------------
      Alastair Millar <alastair@...>
      url: http:// www.skriptorium.cz
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