Re: Czech ethnogenesis
- "Alastair Millar" <alastair@...> sent:
>Their settlement in the Bohemian Basin, however, did not lead directly torelations between the earlier settlers
>the ethnogenesis of the Czech "tribe...
>and the newcomers led to the origin of the tribe which probably at thisThis is very interesting and thought provoking. I have a few questions,
>took the ancient (and thus etymologically uncertain) name of Czechs.
Do I understand correctly that the Czechs did not arrive as a tribe, but
became a tribe later?
What is the ethnic relation (if any) between the Czechs and the Wends,
Poles, and Red Croatians?
Did members of those nations become Czechs?
And from what people(s) were the Czechs formed into a tribe?
Thanks for this info.
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- Jeff/Janos wrote:
>Do I understand correctly that the Czechs did not arrive asWell, the people who are NOW the Czechs were formed from the assimilation of
>a tribe, but became a tribe later?
other groups... like the people who are NOW the English. I suspect that, as
with the English, there was a large initial population that later absorbed
other, culturally-diverse, elements.
The first Slavic settlers in Bohemia would have assimilated (perhaps
forcibly) the disorganised remnant Germanic and/or other populations already
in the area. Tr'es'tik is saying that the differences between the various
groups of these settlers (which we can assume included some sort of
"proto-Czechs" and/or the West Bohemian Lutice, the Croats who had settled
NE Bohemia, plus presumably Sorbs/Wends along the northern fringes), and the
"latecomers" all disappeared during the 6th-7th centuries. This gave rise
to the group that we now call "Czechs".
>What is the ethnic relation (if any) between the Czechs and the Wends,At a guess... they're all Slavs! [grin].
>Poles, and Red Croatians?
>Did members of those nations become Czechs?I think that it is fairly clear that some members of these groups were
>And from what people(s) were the Czechs formed into a tribe?
absorbed into the "Czechs" - see above.
These are the big questions of early Czech history, right now. Many still
believe (or prefer to believe) the old legend of "Forefather Czech" who led
his people across the great river (the Elbe) and up R'ip hill, and there
his standard, saying "My people have travelled enough, this is a rich and
fertile land for them to live in".
Personally, I've always thought it more likely that after fording one of
Europe's major rivers and climbing a damn great hill to get a look at where
he was going, he said something like "stuff it, I'm not walking another
*!%$#* mile in this weather...".
Alastair Millar <alastair@...>
url: http:// www.skriptorium.cz