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Re: [sig] Digest Number 3493

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  • Sfandra
    I would almost think, Dok, that what you re thinking is a group more like the Veche, rather than a group formed around a single noble leader like a
    Message 1 of 8 , Jun 18, 2013
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      I would almost think, 'Dok, that what you're thinking is a group more like the Veche, rather than a group formed around a single noble leader like a Druzhina....
       
      But if you're at Pennsic, make sure to ask to see my cloak, which has Zhar-ptitsa embroideries on it... ;-)
       
      ---Sfandra
       

      ******************
      Boiarynia Sfandra Dmitrieva Chernigova
      O.L., O.M., K.O.E., Haus VDK, East Kingdom
      http://sfandra.webs.com
      Never 'pearl' your butt.
      ******************


      ________________________________
      From: Tim Nalley <mordakus@...>
      To: sig@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 5:59 PM
      Subject: Re: [sig] Digest Number 3493


      I was thinking about copying your dtuzhina idea to form The Firebird Druzhina, an inter+kingdom group of independent warbands of freebooter Slavic artisans devoted to getting our Slavic arts geek on, and some periodic drinking and laughter. Thoughts? Impressions?
      'dok


      From my Android phone on T-Mobile. The first nationwide 4G network.

      -------- Original message --------
      Subject: Re: [sig] Digest Number 3493
      From: Sfandra <seonaid13@...>
      To: "sig@yahoogroups.com" <sig@yahoogroups.com>
      CC: 

      We had a conversation about what to use for an SCA household a while go for me, when I was elevated to the Peerage.  My household (the big one) is set up in a way that all Peers have their own "sub-houses".   So within the greater Haus Von Drakenklaue, I am head of "Sfandrinskaia Druzhina".  However, I've not tried to register that (not even my arms: I know, bad peer, no biscuit...)

      I recall there's also a particular structure to designate "descendents of".... I'm trying to remember ... Chernigovichi?  I think I've seen that used to reference the family of the ruling princes of Chernigov....

      You can also submit to the College of Heralds that Doma Kazimirich is based on Doma Romanovich, depending on how early your documentation gets.  If you can tag it to pre-1650 for sure -- submit, w/ documentation, and force it up to Laurel for reconsideration.  The College of Heralds WILL overturn old precedents if you can give them reasonable enough documentation.  But PARTICULARLY for Slavic languages, they need documentation in English.   They're stubborn, but will change their minds if you can give them enough proof. 

      --Sfandra Dmitrieva

       
      ******************
      Boiarynia Sfandra Dmitrieva Chernigova
      O.L., O.M., K.O.E., Haus VDK, East Kingdom
      http://sfandra.webs.com/
      Never 'pearl' your butt.
      ******************

      ________________________________
      From: Joseph Belcher <iegrappling@...>
      To: sig@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 11:29 AM
      Subject: Re: [sig] Digest Number 3493


      I thought so as well…
      But the SCA College of Heralds has ruled “[Household name Dom Kazimira] This submission was documented as the Russian translation of the phrase House of Kazimir. However, no evidence was presented that Dom was a term used to describe a group of people in period Russia. In addition, no evidence was presented as to how household names in Russian might be formed from personal names; it is unclear whether they would use the given name, a patronymic form, a byname, or some other kind of element. Barring such evidence, this household name cannot be registered”
      Also, the earliest references I can find to the House of Romanov say дома Романовых (Doma Romanovich)
      -Halbrust

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Tatiana Golter <littlegreensardine@...>
      To: sig <sig@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Tue, Jun 18, 2013 7:01 am
      Subject: Re: [sig] Digest Number 3493

      The correct form of the word is 'dom', means 'house', 'home'. 'doma' and
      'domu' are the forms of the same word. For example 'v domu' is translated
      as 'in the house', 'doma', depending where your stress mark is could mean
      different things. When it is 'dOma', like 'ya dOma', means 'I am home',
      when it's 'domA' it is a multiple of home, homes.
      Of course it's modern Russian, anyone who knows how my version is different
      from the old Russian, please help.
      So if you are trying to say The House of ...some such thing, it would be
      Dom XXXX.

      Hope this helps and please let me know if I can be of further assistance
      Tatiana Moskovskaia
      On Jun 18, 2013 5:50 AM, <sig@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
      >
      > Slavic Interest Group (SIG) List Group
      > 1 New Message
      > Digest #3493
      > 1a
      > Translation help by "Joseph Belcher" halbrust_of_caid
      >
      > Message
      > 1a
      > Translation help
      > Mon Jun 17, 2013 4:52 pm (PDT) . Posted by:
      > "Joseph Belcher" halbrust_of_caid
      >
      > I'm digging and digging for evidence that doma or domu is the correct
      pre-1600 term for a Russian household or family.
      >
      > I have several passages from a 1617 book using the term дома. Is anyone
      willing to look over some scans and see if any of the uses apply in the way
      I want/need them to?
      >
      > I've attempted using Google translate, but I'm having little to no luck.
      The images are scanned, and so I can not cut and paste text. Trying to type
      in the correct letters is not working very well.
      >
      > -Halbrust
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
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    • Tim Nalley
      awesome.....I live 100 yards from you at Pennsic! From my Android phone on T-Mobile. The first nationwide 4G network. ... Subject: Re: [sig] Digest Number 3493
      Message 2 of 8 , Jun 19, 2013
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        awesome.....I live 100 yards from you at Pennsic!


        From my Android phone on T-Mobile. The first nationwide 4G network.

        -------- Original message --------
        Subject: Re: [sig] Digest Number 3493
        From: Sfandra <seonaid13@...>
        To: "sig@yahoogroups.com" <sig@yahoogroups.com>
        CC:

        I would almost think, 'Dok, that what you're thinking is a group more like the Veche, rather than a group formed around a single noble leader like a Druzhina....
         
        But if you're at Pennsic, make sure to ask to see my cloak, which has Zhar-ptitsa embroideries on it... ;-)
         
        ---Sfandra
         

        ******************
        Boiarynia Sfandra Dmitrieva Chernigova
        O.L., O.M., K.O.E., Haus VDK, East Kingdom
        http://sfandra.webs.com
        Never 'pearl' your butt.
        ******************


        ________________________________
        From: Tim Nalley <mordakus@...>
        To: sig@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 5:59 PM
        Subject: Re: [sig] Digest Number 3493


        I was thinking about copying your dtuzhina idea to form The Firebird Druzhina, an inter+kingdom group of independent warbands of freebooter Slavic artisans devoted to getting our Slavic arts geek on, and some periodic drinking and laughter. Thoughts? Impressions?
        'dok

        From my Android phone on T-Mobile. The first nationwide 4G network.

        -------- Original message --------
        Subject: Re: [sig] Digest Number 3493
        From: Sfandra <seonaid13@...>
        To: "sig@yahoogroups.com" <sig@yahoogroups.com>
        CC: 

        We had a conversation about what to use for an SCA household a while go for me, when I was elevated to the Peerage.  My household (the big one) is set up in a way that all Peers have their own "sub-houses".   So within the greater Haus Von Drakenklaue, I am head of "Sfandrinskaia Druzhina".  However, I've not tried to register that (not even my arms: I know, bad peer, no biscuit...)

        I recall there's also a particular structure to designate "descendents of".... I'm trying to remember ... Chernigovichi?  I think I've seen that used to reference the family of the ruling princes of Chernigov....

        You can also submit to the College of Heralds that Doma Kazimirich is based on Doma Romanovich, depending on how early your documentation gets.  If you can tag it to pre-1650 for sure -- submit, w/ documentation, and force it up to Laurel for reconsideration.  The College of Heralds WILL overturn old precedents if you can give them reasonable enough documentation.  But PARTICULARLY for Slavic languages, they need documentation in English.   They're stubborn, but will change their minds if you can give them enough proof. 

        --Sfandra Dmitrieva

         
        ******************
        Boiarynia Sfandra Dmitrieva Chernigova
        O.L., O.M., K.O.E., Haus VDK, East Kingdom
        http://sfandra.webs.com/
        Never 'pearl' your butt.
        ******************

        ________________________________
        From: Joseph Belcher <iegrappling@...>
        To: sig@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 11:29 AM
        Subject: Re: [sig] Digest Number 3493

        I thought so as well…
        But the SCA College of Heralds has ruled “[Household name Dom Kazimira] This submission was documented as the Russian translation of the phrase House of Kazimir. However, no evidence was presented that Dom was a term used to describe a group of people in period Russia. In addition, no evidence was presented as to how household names in Russian might be formed from personal names; it is unclear whether they would use the given name, a patronymic form, a byname, or some other kind of element. Barring such evidence, this household name cannot be registered”
        Also, the earliest references I can find to the House of Romanov say дома Романовых (Doma Romanovich)
        -Halbrust

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Tatiana Golter <littlegreensardine@...>
        To: sig <sig@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Tue, Jun 18, 2013 7:01 am
        Subject: Re: [sig] Digest Number 3493

        The correct form of the word is 'dom', means 'house', 'home'. 'doma' and
        'domu' are the forms of the same word. For example 'v domu' is translated
        as 'in the house', 'doma', depending where your stress mark is could mean
        different things. When it is 'dOma', like 'ya dOma', means 'I am home',
        when it's 'domA' it is a multiple of home, homes.
        Of course it's modern Russian, anyone who knows how my version is different
        from the old Russian, please help.
        So if you are trying to say The House of ...some such thing, it would be
        Dom XXXX.

        Hope this helps and please let me know if I can be of further assistance
        Tatiana Moskovskaia
        On Jun 18, 2013 5:50 AM, <sig@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
        >
        > Slavic Interest Group (SIG) List Group
        > 1 New Message
        > Digest #3493
        > 1a
        > Translation help by "Joseph Belcher" halbrust_of_caid
        >
        > Message
        > 1a
        > Translation help
        > Mon Jun 17, 2013 4:52 pm (PDT) . Posted by:
        > "Joseph Belcher" halbrust_of_caid
        >
        > I'm digging and digging for evidence that doma or domu is the correct
        pre-1600 term for a Russian household or family.
        >
        > I have several passages from a 1617 book using the term дома. Is anyone
        willing to look over some scans and see if any of the uses apply in the way
        I want/need them to?
        >
        > I've attempted using Google translate, but I'm having little to no luck.
        The images are scanned, and so I can not cut and paste text. Trying to type
        in the correct letters is not working very well.
        >
        > -Halbrust
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        > Reply to sender . Reply to group . Reply via Web Post . All Messages (21)
        . Top ^
        > Visit Your Group
        > >
        > View All Topics
        > >
        > Create New Topic
        > >
        > 1 New Members
        > >
        > We are making changes based on your feedback, Thank you !
        > Submit Feedback
        > >
        > The Yahoo! Groups Product Blog
        > Check it out!
        > >
        > CHANGE SETTINGS
        > >
        > TERMS OF USE
        > >
        > UNSUBSCRIBE
        > >

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        ------------------------------------

        Yahoo! Groups Links

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        ------------------------------------

        Yahoo! Groups Links

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Tatiana Golter
        The SCA College of Heralds forgets that in some languages there are such things as conjugations. So when the word is taken out of context, it looses sense. I
        Message 3 of 8 , Jun 19, 2013
        • 0 Attachment
          The SCA College of Heralds forgets that in some languages there are such
          things as conjugations. So when the word is taken out of context, it looses
          sense.
          I had similar issue with registering my surname, they told me that the form
          was wrong. So I wrote an appeal. The name passed.
          I understand that languages change with time, however, some words and
          conjugations have not changed. I grew up with this stuff, which should
          account for something, I would think.
          So, if you want to register Dom of some such Thing, I suggest that you do
          it. I could help you with forming the name, as much as I can. I have a
          decent collection of books that might help. At the very least it will be a
          good try. And hopefully, SCA will have one less badly formed Russian name.
          (;

          You can contact me directly, or through the list. I am also on Facebook and
          Sig Facebook group.

          YIS
          Tatiana Moskovskaia


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Tim Nalley
          That would be great! So......any way I could shamelessly beg for a translation of my apprentice contract? 4 sentences......I believe in brevity! dok From my
          Message 4 of 8 , Jun 19, 2013
          • 0 Attachment
            That would be great! So......any way I could shamelessly beg for a translation of my apprentice contract? 4 sentences......I believe in brevity!
            'dok


            From my Android phone on T-Mobile. The first nationwide 4G network.

            -------- Original message --------
            Subject: [sig] Re: Digest Number 3493
            From: Tatiana Golter <littlegreensardine@...>
            To: sig@yahoogroups.com
            CC:

            The SCA College of Heralds forgets that in some languages there are such
            things as conjugations. So when the word is taken out of context, it looses
            sense.
            I had similar issue with registering my surname, they told me that the form
            was wrong. So I wrote an appeal. The name passed.
            I understand that languages change with time, however, some words and
            conjugations have not changed. I grew up with this stuff, which should
            account for something, I would think.
            So, if you want to register Dom of some such Thing, I suggest that you do
            it. I could help you with forming the name, as much as I can. I have a
            decent collection of books that might help. At the very least it will be a
            good try. And hopefully, SCA will have one less badly formed Russian name.
            (;

            You can contact me directly, or through the list. I am also on Facebook and
            Sig Facebook group.

            YIS
            Tatiana Moskovskaia

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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