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Re: [sig] Kievan Royal titles

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  • Lisa Kies
    During the Kievan period, the terms Tsar, Tsaritsa, Tsarevna, etc. were used to refer to the Byzantine emperor and his family, and for various rulers in the
    Message 1 of 12 , Apr 18, 2013
    • 0 Attachment
      During the Kievan period, the terms Tsar, Tsaritsa, Tsarevna, etc. were
      used to refer to the Byzantine emperor and his family, and for various
      rulers in the Bible.

      From the Russian primary chronicle:

      988 [6496] "The Princess [tsaritsa] declared to him..." [The "Princess"
      here is the sister of the Byzantine emperors.] царица... цари


      During the Mongol period, the terms were used for the Mongol khan and his
      family.

      The first Russian ruler to use the title "tsar" (albeit inconsistently) was
      Ivan III. His grandson, Ivan IV was the first to be _crowned_ tsar.

      http://sofyalarus.info/Russia/titlesroyal.html

      But the "tsar" titles are a lot easier to say than Velikii Knyaz and
      Velikaya Knyaginya and were used in the Kievan period in Rus.

      At your service,

      Sofya


      On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 1:46 PM, Joseph Belcher <iegrappling@...> wrote:

      >
      > Doing research now, I just found referrence (unverified) of Tsaritsa being
      > used in the 10th century :o)
      >
      > -Halbrust
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      >
      > We are also stepping up on May 4th but to save our populace from saying
      > mouthful we are doing with Tsar and Tsaritsa which is well out of period
      > or us.
      >
      >
      > the female equivalent would be Velikaya Knyaginya
      >
      > Lada
      >
      > Oooooh...
      > SHINY!
      >
      > scribal arts:
      >
      >
      > http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150165898386642.292073.728251641&l=c4602b7ffc&type=1
      >
      > ________________________________
      > From: Joseph Belcher <iegrappling@... <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
      > 'iegrappling%40aol.com');>>
      > To: sig@yahoogroups.com <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
      > 'sig%40yahoogroups.com');>
      > Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2013 1:06 PM
      > Subject: Re: [sig] Kievan Royal titles
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > I believe Grand Prince would be the most appropriate title for His reign.
      > I unfortunately do no know the corresponding title (if there was one) for
      > Her.
      >
      > -Halbrust
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: charles stefanich <mos6238@... <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
      > 'mos6238%40yahoo.com');>>
      > To: sig <sig@yahoogroups.com <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
      > 'sig%40yahoogroups.com');>>
      > Sent: Thu, Apr 18, 2013 9:59 am
      > Subject: [sig] Kievan Royal titles
      >
      > Midrealm coronation is this May 4, 2013. Her Royal Highness as tasked me
      > with finding appropriate titles for 9Th-10THC Kievan Rus rulers that they
      > can use for their reign. Help with this will be very welcome and
      > appreciated.
      > In service,
      > THL Istvan Valkai
      > Squire to Duke Felix
      > Apprentice to Master Zygmunt
      > Great Slav of the Slavic Nation
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      > Individual Email | Traditional
      > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >


      --
      ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

      Lisa M. Kies, MD
      Eagle Family Health
      Nora Springs, IA 50458
      www.eaglefamilyhealth.com
      ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

      Lisa M. Kies, MD aka Sofya la Rus, OL, CW, CSH, druzhinnitsa Kramolnikova
      Mason City, IA aka Shire of Heraldshill, Calontir
      ___
      http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser
      {o,o}
      "Mir znachit Pax Romanov"
      (__(|
      "Et nunc et semper, etiam atque etiam, et discere et exquire et
      alia." -^-^-`
      ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Joseph Belcher
      Which is why I suggested Grand Prince, and now Grand Princess. The easy to pronounce anglanizations of Velikii Knyaz and Velikaya Knyaginya. If I were to ever
      Message 2 of 12 , Apr 18, 2013
      • 0 Attachment
        Which is why I suggested Grand Prince, and now Grand Princess.
        The easy to pronounce anglanizations of Velikii Knyaz and Velikaya Knyaginya.

        If I were to ever win Crown (never happening!) I would use Grand Prince, because it just sounds cool.

        -Halbrust


        -----Original Message-----
        From: Lisa Kies <lkies319@...>
        To: sig <sig@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Thu, Apr 18, 2013 12:15 pm
        Subject: Re: [sig] Kievan Royal titles




        During the Kievan period, the terms Tsar, Tsaritsa, Tsarevna, etc. were
        used to refer to the Byzantine emperor and his family, and for various
        rulers in the Bible.

        From the Russian primary chronicle:

        988 [6496] "The Princess [tsaritsa] declared to him..." [The "Princess"
        here is the sister of the Byzantine emperors.] царица... цари

        During the Mongol period, the terms were used for the Mongol khan and his
        family.

        The first Russian ruler to use the title "tsar" (albeit inconsistently) was
        Ivan III. His grandson, Ivan IV was the first to be _crowned_ tsar.

        http://sofyalarus.info/Russia/titlesroyal.html

        But the "tsar" titles are a lot easier to say than Velikii Knyaz and
        Velikaya Knyaginya and were used in the Kievan period in Rus.

        At your service,

        Sofya

        On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 1:46 PM, Joseph Belcher <iegrappling@...> wrote:

        >
        > Doing research now, I just found referrence (unverified) of Tsaritsa being
        > used in the 10th century :o)
        >
        > -Halbrust
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        >
        > We are also stepping up on May 4th but to save our populace from saying
        > mouthful we are doing with Tsar and Tsaritsa which is well out of period
        > or us.
        >
        >
        > the female equivalent would be Velikaya Knyaginya
        >
        > Lada
        >
        > Oooooh...
        > SHINY!
        >
        > scribal arts:
        >
        >
        > http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150165898386642.292073.728251641&l=c4602b7ffc&type=1
        >
        > ________________________________
        > From: Joseph Belcher <iegrappling@... <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
        > 'iegrappling%40aol.com');>>
        > To: sig@yahoogroups.com <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
        > 'sig%40yahoogroups.com');>
        > Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2013 1:06 PM
        > Subject: Re: [sig] Kievan Royal titles
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > I believe Grand Prince would be the most appropriate title for His reign.
        > I unfortunately do no know the corresponding title (if there was one) for
        > Her.
        >
        > -Halbrust
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: charles stefanich <mos6238@... <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
        > 'mos6238%40yahoo.com');>>
        > To: sig <sig@yahoogroups.com <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
        > 'sig%40yahoogroups.com');>>
        > Sent: Thu, Apr 18, 2013 9:59 am
        > Subject: [sig] Kievan Royal titles
        >
        > Midrealm coronation is this May 4, 2013. Her Royal Highness as tasked me
        > with finding appropriate titles for 9Th-10THC Kievan Rus rulers that they
        > can use for their reign. Help with this will be very welcome and
        > appreciated.
        > In service,
        > THL Istvan Valkai
        > Squire to Duke Felix
        > Apprentice to Master Zygmunt
        > Great Slav of the Slavic Nation
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > Individual Email | Traditional
        > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >

        --
        ----------------------------------------------------------

        Lisa M. Kies, MD
        Eagle Family Health
        Nora Springs, IA 50458
        www.eaglefamilyhealth.com
        ----------------------------------------------------------

        Lisa M. Kies, MD aka Sofya la Rus, OL, CW, CSH, druzhinnitsa Kramolnikova
        Mason City, IA aka Shire of Heraldshill, Calontir
        ___
        http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser
        {o,o}
        "Mir znachit Pax Romanov"
        (__(|
        "Et nunc et semper, etiam atque etiam, et discere et exquire et
        alia." -^-^-`
        ----------------------------------------------------------

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • charles stefanich
        Thanks so much. I will pass on both and let them chose. Is it possible to get a phonetic pronunciation of the Kievan Rus titles. I d hate to use my heralds
        Message 3 of 12 , Apr 18, 2013
        • 0 Attachment
          Thanks so much. I will pass on both and let them chose. Is it possible to get a phonetic pronunciation of the Kievan Rus titles. I'd hate to use my heralds best guess when I speak with them.
          Istvan Valkai


          ________________________________
          From: Lisa Kies <lkies319@...>
          To: sig@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2013 3:15 PM
          Subject: Re: [sig] Kievan Royal titles

           
          During the Kievan period, the terms Tsar, Tsaritsa, Tsarevna, etc. were
          used to refer to the Byzantine emperor and his family, and for various
          rulers in the Bible.

          From the Russian primary chronicle:

          988 [6496] "The Princess [tsaritsa] declared to him..." [The "Princess"
          here is the sister of the Byzantine emperors.] царица... цари

          During the Mongol period, the terms were used for the Mongol khan and his
          family.

          The first Russian ruler to use the title "tsar" (albeit inconsistently) was
          Ivan III. His grandson, Ivan IV was the first to be _crowned_ tsar.

          http://sofyalarus.info/Russia/titlesroyal.html

          But the "tsar" titles are a lot easier to say than Velikii Knyaz and
          Velikaya Knyaginya and were used in the Kievan period in Rus.

          At your service,

          Sofya

          On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 1:46 PM, Joseph Belcher <mailto:iegrappling%40aol.com> wrote:

          >
          > Doing research now, I just found referrence (unverified) of Tsaritsa being
          > used in the 10th century :o)
          >
          > -Halbrust
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          >
          > We are also stepping up on May 4th but to save our populace from saying
          > mouthful we are doing with Tsar and Tsaritsa which is well out of period
          > or us.
          >
          >
          > the female equivalent would be Velikaya Knyaginya
          >
          > Lada
          >
          > Oooooh...
          > SHINY!
          >
          > scribal arts:
          >
          >
          > http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150165898386642.292073.728251641&l=c4602b7ffc&type=1
          >
          > ________________________________
          > From: Joseph Belcher <mailto:iegrappling%40aol.com <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
          > 'iegrappling%40aol.com');>>
          > To: mailto:sig%40yahoogroups.com <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
          > 'sig%40yahoogroups.com');>
          > Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2013 1:06 PM
          > Subject: Re: [sig] Kievan Royal titles
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > I believe Grand Prince would be the most appropriate title for His reign.
          > I unfortunately do no know the corresponding title (if there was one) for
          > Her.
          >
          > -Halbrust
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: charles stefanich <mailto:mos6238%40yahoo.com <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
          > 'mos6238%40yahoo.com');>>
          > To: sig <mailto:sig%40yahoogroups.com <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
          > 'sig%40yahoogroups.com');>>
          > Sent: Thu, Apr 18, 2013 9:59 am
          > Subject: [sig] Kievan Royal titles
          >
          > Midrealm coronation is this May 4, 2013. Her Royal Highness as tasked me
          > with finding appropriate titles for 9Th-10THC Kievan Rus rulers that they
          > can use for their reign. Help with this will be very welcome and
          > appreciated.
          > In service,
          > THL Istvan Valkai
          > Squire to Duke Felix
          > Apprentice to Master Zygmunt
          > Great Slav of the Slavic Nation
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > Individual Email | Traditional
          > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >

          --
          ----------------------------------------------------------

          Lisa M. Kies, MD
          Eagle Family Health
          Nora Springs, IA 50458
          http://www.eaglefamilyhealth.com/
          ----------------------------------------------------------

          Lisa M. Kies, MD aka Sofya la Rus, OL, CW, CSH, druzhinnitsa Kramolnikova
          Mason City, IA aka Shire of Heraldshill, Calontir
          ___
          http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser
          {o,o}
          "Mir znachit Pax Romanov"
          (__(|
          "Et nunc et semper, etiam atque etiam, et discere et exquire et
          alia." -^-^-`
          ----------------------------------------------------------

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Yevgeniya Pechenaya
          Reading this discussion make me think that I would love and I think others would too to see a class on period Russian titles of all levels. just throwing it
          Message 4 of 12 , Apr 18, 2013
          • 0 Attachment
            Reading this discussion make me think that I would love and I think others would too to see a class on period Russian titles of all levels.
            just throwing it out there. :)


             
            Lada

            Oooooh...
            SHINY!


            scribal arts:
            http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150165898386642.292073.728251641&l=c4602b7ffc&type=1





            ________________________________
            From: charles stefanich <mos6238@...>
            To: "sig@yahoogroups.com" <sig@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2013 3:23 PM
            Subject: Re: [sig] Kievan Royal titles



             
            Thanks so much. I will pass on both and let them chose. Is it possible to get a phonetic pronunciation of the Kievan Rus titles. I'd hate to use my heralds best guess when I speak with them.
            Istvan Valkai

            ________________________________
            From: Lisa Kies <lkies319@...>
            To: sig@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2013 3:15 PM
            Subject: Re: [sig] Kievan Royal titles

             
            During the Kievan period, the terms Tsar, Tsaritsa, Tsarevna, etc. were
            used to refer to the Byzantine emperor and his family, and for various
            rulers in the Bible.

            From the Russian primary chronicle:

            988 [6496] "The Princess [tsaritsa] declared to him..." [The "Princess"
            here is the sister of the Byzantine emperors.] царица... цари

            During the Mongol period, the terms were used for the Mongol khan and his
            family.

            The first Russian ruler to use the title "tsar" (albeit inconsistently) was
            Ivan III. His grandson, Ivan IV was the first to be _crowned_ tsar.

            http://sofyalarus.info/Russia/titlesroyal.html

            But the "tsar" titles are a lot easier to say than Velikii Knyaz and
            Velikaya Knyaginya and were used in the Kievan period in Rus.

            At your service,

            Sofya

            On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 1:46 PM, Joseph Belcher <mailto:iegrappling%40aol.com> wrote:

            >
            > Doing research now, I just found referrence (unverified) of Tsaritsa being
            > used in the 10th century :o)
            >
            > -Halbrust
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            >
            > We are also stepping up on May 4th but to save our populace from saying
            > mouthful we are doing with Tsar and Tsaritsa which is well out of period
            > or us.
            >
            >
            > the female equivalent would be Velikaya Knyaginya
            >
            > Lada
            >
            > Oooooh...
            > SHINY!
            >
            > scribal arts:
            >
            >
            > http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150165898386642.292073.728251641&l=c4602b7ffc&type=1
            >
            > ________________________________
            > From: Joseph Belcher <mailto:iegrappling%40aol.com <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
            > 'iegrappling%40aol.com');>>
            > To: mailto:sig%40yahoogroups.com <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
            > 'sig%40yahoogroups.com');>
            > Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2013 1:06 PM
            > Subject: Re: [sig] Kievan Royal titles
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > I believe Grand Prince would be the most appropriate title for His reign.
            > I unfortunately do no know the corresponding title (if there was one) for
            > Her.
            >
            > -Halbrust
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: charles stefanich <mailto:mos6238%40yahoo.com <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
            > 'mos6238%40yahoo.com');>>
            > To: sig <mailto:sig%40yahoogroups.com <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
            > 'sig%40yahoogroups.com');>>
            > Sent: Thu, Apr 18, 2013 9:59 am
            > Subject: [sig] Kievan Royal titles
            >
            > Midrealm coronation is this May 4, 2013. Her Royal Highness as tasked me
            > with finding appropriate titles for 9Th-10THC Kievan Rus rulers that they
            > can use for their reign. Help with this will be very welcome and
            > appreciated.
            > In service,
            > THL Istvan Valkai
            > Squire to Duke Felix
            > Apprentice to Master Zygmunt
            > Great Slav of the Slavic Nation
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > Individual Email | Traditional
            > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >

            --
            ----------------------------------------------------------

            Lisa M. Kies, MD
            Eagle Family Health
            Nora Springs, IA 50458
            http://www.eaglefamilyhealth.com/
            ----------------------------------------------------------

            Lisa M. Kies, MD aka Sofya la Rus, OL, CW, CSH, druzhinnitsa Kramolnikova
            Mason City, IA aka Shire of Heraldshill, Calontir
            ___
            http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser
            {o,o}
            "Mir znachit Pax Romanov"
            (__(|
            "Et nunc et semper, etiam atque etiam, et discere et exquire et
            alia." -^-^-`
            ----------------------------------------------------------

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Lisa Kies
            Come to Heralds Point at Lilies and I ll give you my class. :-) Pronunciations can be found here: http://russiansig.wikispaces.com/SCA+Alternative+Titles
            Message 5 of 12 , Apr 18, 2013
            • 0 Attachment
              Come to Heralds Point at Lilies and I'll give you my class. :-)

              Pronunciations can be found here:
              http://russiansig.wikispaces.com/SCA+Alternative+Titles

              Sofya


              On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 2:27 PM, Yevgeniya Pechenaya
              <ladie_lada@...>wrote:

              > Reading this discussion make me think that I would love and I think others
              > would too to see a class on period Russian titles of all levels.
              > just throwing it out there. :)
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Dezz Windecker-Klassen
              Hi,   I live up in the Principality of Avacal and was wondering if there is any class material that you would be willing to share?   Sincerely,   HE
              Message 6 of 12 , Apr 19, 2013
              • 0 Attachment
                Hi,
                 
                I live up in the Principality of Avacal and was wondering if there is any class material that you would be willing to share?
                 
                Sincerely,
                 
                HE Dezzrianne Draganova doch'
                 

                ________________________________
                From: Lisa Kies <lkies319@...>
                To: sig@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2013 1:46:43 PM
                Subject: Re: [sig] Kievan Royal titles


                 

                Come to Heralds Point at Lilies and I'll give you my class. :-)

                Pronunciations can be found here:
                http://russiansig.wikispaces.com/SCA+Alternative+Titles

                Sofya

                On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 2:27 PM, Yevgeniya Pechenaya
                <mailto:ladie_lada%40yahoo.com>wrote:

                > Reading this discussion make me think that I would love and I think others
                > would too to see a class on period Russian titles of all levels.
                > just throwing it out there. :)
                >
                >

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Lisa Kies
                Greetings from Sofya, On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 9:25 AM, Dezz Windecker-Klassen
                Message 7 of 12 , Apr 20, 2013
                • 0 Attachment
                  Greetings from Sofya,


                  On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 9:25 AM, Dezz Windecker-Klassen <
                  dezzrianne@...> wrote:

                  > Hi,
                  >
                  > I live up in the Principality of Avacal and was wondering if there is any
                  > class material that you would be willing to share?
                  >
                  > Sincerely,
                  >
                  > HE Dezzrianne Draganova doch'
                  >
                  >
                  The class material is in the form of a Power Point presentation which is a
                  somewhat awkward thing to put on-line. But, the class was based on my
                  research notes which you can find here:

                  http://www.sofyalarus.info/Russia/titles.html

                  At your service,

                  Sofya

                  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                  Lisa M. Kies, MD aka Sofya la Rus, OL, CW, CSH, druzhinnitsa Kramolnikova
                  Mason City, IA aka Shire of Heraldshill, Calontir
                  ___
                  http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser
                  {o,o}
                  "Mir znachit Pax Romanov"
                  (__(|
                  "Et nunc et semper, etiam atque etiam, et discere et exquire et
                  alia." -^-^-`
                  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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