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Kievan Royal titles

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  • charles stefanich
    Midrealm coronation is this May 4, 2013. Her Royal Highness as tasked me with finding appropriate titles for 9Th-10THC Kievan Rus rulers that they can use for
    Message 1 of 12 , Apr 18, 2013
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      Midrealm coronation is this May 4, 2013. Her Royal Highness as tasked me with finding appropriate titles for 9Th-10THC Kievan Rus rulers that they can use for their reign. Help with this will be very welcome and appreciated.
      In service,
      THL Istvan Valkai
      Squire to Duke Felix
      Apprentice to Master Zygmunt
      Great Slav of the Slavic Nation

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Joseph Belcher
      I believe Grand Prince would be the most appropriate title for His reign. I unfortunately do no know the corresponding title (if there was one) for Her.
      Message 2 of 12 , Apr 18, 2013
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        I believe Grand Prince would be the most appropriate title for His reign.
        I unfortunately do no know the corresponding title (if there was one) for Her.

        -Halbrust

        -----Original Message-----
        From: charles stefanich <mos6238@...>
        To: sig <sig@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Thu, Apr 18, 2013 9:59 am
        Subject: [sig] Kievan Royal titles




        Midrealm coronation is this May 4, 2013. Her Royal Highness as tasked me with finding appropriate titles for 9Th-10THC Kievan Rus rulers that they can use for their reign. Help with this will be very welcome and appreciated.
        In service,
        THL Istvan Valkai
        Squire to Duke Felix
        Apprentice to Master Zygmunt
        Great Slav of the Slavic Nation

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Yevgeniya Pechenaya
        the female equivalent would be Velikaya Knyaginya   Lada Oooooh... SHINY! scribal arts:
        Message 3 of 12 , Apr 18, 2013
        • 0 Attachment
          the female equivalent would be Velikaya Knyaginya


           
          Lada

          Oooooh...
          SHINY!


          scribal arts:
          http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150165898386642.292073.728251641&l=c4602b7ffc&type=1





          ________________________________
          From: Joseph Belcher <iegrappling@...>
          To: sig@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2013 1:06 PM
          Subject: Re: [sig] Kievan Royal titles



           

          I believe Grand Prince would be the most appropriate title for His reign.
          I unfortunately do no know the corresponding title (if there was one) for Her.

          -Halbrust

          -----Original Message-----
          From: charles stefanich <mos6238@...>
          To: sig <sig@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Thu, Apr 18, 2013 9:59 am
          Subject: [sig] Kievan Royal titles

          Midrealm coronation is this May 4, 2013. Her Royal Highness as tasked me with finding appropriate titles for 9Th-10THC Kievan Rus rulers that they can use for their reign. Help with this will be very welcome and appreciated.
          In service,
          THL Istvan Valkai
          Squire to Duke Felix
          Apprentice to Master Zygmunt
          Great Slav of the Slavic Nation

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Jennifer Nelson Kemp
          We are also stepping up on May 4th but to save our populace from saying a mouthful we are doing with Tsar and Tsaritsa which is well out of period for us.
          Message 4 of 12 , Apr 18, 2013
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            We are also stepping up on May 4th but to save our populace from saying
            a mouthful we are doing with Tsar and Tsaritsa which is well out of period
            for us.

            Ian'ka, Tsarenva Atenveldt

            On Thursday, April 18, 2013, Yevgeniya Pechenaya wrote:

            > **
            >
            >
            > the female equivalent would be Velikaya Knyaginya
            >
            >
            > Lada
            >
            > Oooooh...
            > SHINY!
            >
            > scribal arts:
            >
            > http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150165898386642.292073.728251641&l=c4602b7ffc&type=1
            >
            > ________________________________
            > From: Joseph Belcher <iegrappling@... <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
            > 'iegrappling%40aol.com');>>
            > To: sig@yahoogroups.com <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
            > 'sig%40yahoogroups.com');>
            > Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2013 1:06 PM
            > Subject: Re: [sig] Kievan Royal titles
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > I believe Grand Prince would be the most appropriate title for His reign.
            > I unfortunately do no know the corresponding title (if there was one) for
            > Her.
            >
            > -Halbrust
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: charles stefanich <mos6238@... <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
            > 'mos6238%40yahoo.com');>>
            > To: sig <sig@yahoogroups.com <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
            > 'sig%40yahoogroups.com');>>
            > Sent: Thu, Apr 18, 2013 9:59 am
            > Subject: [sig] Kievan Royal titles
            >
            > Midrealm coronation is this May 4, 2013. Her Royal Highness as tasked me
            > with finding appropriate titles for 9Th-10THC Kievan Rus rulers that they
            > can use for their reign. Help with this will be very welcome and
            > appreciated.
            > In service,
            > THL Istvan Valkai
            > Squire to Duke Felix
            > Apprentice to Master Zygmunt
            > Great Slav of the Slavic Nation
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Joseph Belcher
            Doing research now, I just found referrence (unverified) of Tsaritsa being used in the 10th century :o) -Halbrust ... From: Jennifer Nelson Kemp
            Message 5 of 12 , Apr 18, 2013
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              Doing research now, I just found referrence (unverified) of Tsaritsa being used in the 10th century :o)

              -Halbrust


              -----Original Message-----
              From: Jennifer Nelson Kemp <lady.ianuk@...>
              To: sig <sig@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Thu, Apr 18, 2013 10:56 am
              Subject: Re: [sig] Kievan Royal titles


              We are also stepping up on May 4th but to save our populace from saying
              mouthful we are doing with Tsar and Tsaritsa which is well out of period
              or us.
              Ian'ka, Tsarenva Atenveldt
              On Thursday, April 18, 2013, Yevgeniya Pechenaya wrote:
              > **


              the female equivalent would be Velikaya Knyaginya


              Lada

              Oooooh...
              SHINY!

              scribal arts:

              http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150165898386642.292073.728251641&l=c4602b7ffc&type=1

              ________________________________
              From: Joseph Belcher <iegrappling@... <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
              'iegrappling%40aol.com');>>
              To: sig@yahoogroups.com <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
              'sig%40yahoogroups.com');>
              Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2013 1:06 PM
              Subject: Re: [sig] Kievan Royal titles




              I believe Grand Prince would be the most appropriate title for His reign.
              I unfortunately do no know the corresponding title (if there was one) for
              Her.

              -Halbrust

              -----Original Message-----
              From: charles stefanich <mos6238@... <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
              'mos6238%40yahoo.com');>>
              To: sig <sig@yahoogroups.com <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
              'sig%40yahoogroups.com');>>
              Sent: Thu, Apr 18, 2013 9:59 am
              Subject: [sig] Kievan Royal titles

              Midrealm coronation is this May 4, 2013. Her Royal Highness as tasked me
              with finding appropriate titles for 9Th-10THC Kievan Rus rulers that they
              can use for their reign. Help with this will be very welcome and
              appreciated.
              In service,
              THL Istvan Valkai
              Squire to Duke Felix
              Apprentice to Master Zygmunt
              Great Slav of the Slavic Nation

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




              Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

              ------------------------------------
              Yahoo! Groups Links
              Individual Email | Traditional
              http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Lisa Kies
              During the Kievan period, the terms Tsar, Tsaritsa, Tsarevna, etc. were used to refer to the Byzantine emperor and his family, and for various rulers in the
              Message 6 of 12 , Apr 18, 2013
              • 0 Attachment
                During the Kievan period, the terms Tsar, Tsaritsa, Tsarevna, etc. were
                used to refer to the Byzantine emperor and his family, and for various
                rulers in the Bible.

                From the Russian primary chronicle:

                988 [6496] "The Princess [tsaritsa] declared to him..." [The "Princess"
                here is the sister of the Byzantine emperors.] царица... цари


                During the Mongol period, the terms were used for the Mongol khan and his
                family.

                The first Russian ruler to use the title "tsar" (albeit inconsistently) was
                Ivan III. His grandson, Ivan IV was the first to be _crowned_ tsar.

                http://sofyalarus.info/Russia/titlesroyal.html

                But the "tsar" titles are a lot easier to say than Velikii Knyaz and
                Velikaya Knyaginya and were used in the Kievan period in Rus.

                At your service,

                Sofya


                On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 1:46 PM, Joseph Belcher <iegrappling@...> wrote:

                >
                > Doing research now, I just found referrence (unverified) of Tsaritsa being
                > used in the 10th century :o)
                >
                > -Halbrust
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                >
                > We are also stepping up on May 4th but to save our populace from saying
                > mouthful we are doing with Tsar and Tsaritsa which is well out of period
                > or us.
                >
                >
                > the female equivalent would be Velikaya Knyaginya
                >
                > Lada
                >
                > Oooooh...
                > SHINY!
                >
                > scribal arts:
                >
                >
                > http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150165898386642.292073.728251641&l=c4602b7ffc&type=1
                >
                > ________________________________
                > From: Joseph Belcher <iegrappling@... <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
                > 'iegrappling%40aol.com');>>
                > To: sig@yahoogroups.com <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
                > 'sig%40yahoogroups.com');>
                > Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2013 1:06 PM
                > Subject: Re: [sig] Kievan Royal titles
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > I believe Grand Prince would be the most appropriate title for His reign.
                > I unfortunately do no know the corresponding title (if there was one) for
                > Her.
                >
                > -Halbrust
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: charles stefanich <mos6238@... <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
                > 'mos6238%40yahoo.com');>>
                > To: sig <sig@yahoogroups.com <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
                > 'sig%40yahoogroups.com');>>
                > Sent: Thu, Apr 18, 2013 9:59 am
                > Subject: [sig] Kievan Royal titles
                >
                > Midrealm coronation is this May 4, 2013. Her Royal Highness as tasked me
                > with finding appropriate titles for 9Th-10THC Kievan Rus rulers that they
                > can use for their reign. Help with this will be very welcome and
                > appreciated.
                > In service,
                > THL Istvan Valkai
                > Squire to Duke Felix
                > Apprentice to Master Zygmunt
                > Great Slav of the Slavic Nation
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > Individual Email | Traditional
                > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >


                --
                ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                Lisa M. Kies, MD
                Eagle Family Health
                Nora Springs, IA 50458
                www.eaglefamilyhealth.com
                ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                Lisa M. Kies, MD aka Sofya la Rus, OL, CW, CSH, druzhinnitsa Kramolnikova
                Mason City, IA aka Shire of Heraldshill, Calontir
                ___
                http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser
                {o,o}
                "Mir znachit Pax Romanov"
                (__(|
                "Et nunc et semper, etiam atque etiam, et discere et exquire et
                alia." -^-^-`
                ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Joseph Belcher
                Which is why I suggested Grand Prince, and now Grand Princess. The easy to pronounce anglanizations of Velikii Knyaz and Velikaya Knyaginya. If I were to ever
                Message 7 of 12 , Apr 18, 2013
                • 0 Attachment
                  Which is why I suggested Grand Prince, and now Grand Princess.
                  The easy to pronounce anglanizations of Velikii Knyaz and Velikaya Knyaginya.

                  If I were to ever win Crown (never happening!) I would use Grand Prince, because it just sounds cool.

                  -Halbrust


                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Lisa Kies <lkies319@...>
                  To: sig <sig@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Thu, Apr 18, 2013 12:15 pm
                  Subject: Re: [sig] Kievan Royal titles




                  During the Kievan period, the terms Tsar, Tsaritsa, Tsarevna, etc. were
                  used to refer to the Byzantine emperor and his family, and for various
                  rulers in the Bible.

                  From the Russian primary chronicle:

                  988 [6496] "The Princess [tsaritsa] declared to him..." [The "Princess"
                  here is the sister of the Byzantine emperors.] царица... цари

                  During the Mongol period, the terms were used for the Mongol khan and his
                  family.

                  The first Russian ruler to use the title "tsar" (albeit inconsistently) was
                  Ivan III. His grandson, Ivan IV was the first to be _crowned_ tsar.

                  http://sofyalarus.info/Russia/titlesroyal.html

                  But the "tsar" titles are a lot easier to say than Velikii Knyaz and
                  Velikaya Knyaginya and were used in the Kievan period in Rus.

                  At your service,

                  Sofya

                  On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 1:46 PM, Joseph Belcher <iegrappling@...> wrote:

                  >
                  > Doing research now, I just found referrence (unverified) of Tsaritsa being
                  > used in the 10th century :o)
                  >
                  > -Halbrust
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  >
                  > We are also stepping up on May 4th but to save our populace from saying
                  > mouthful we are doing with Tsar and Tsaritsa which is well out of period
                  > or us.
                  >
                  >
                  > the female equivalent would be Velikaya Knyaginya
                  >
                  > Lada
                  >
                  > Oooooh...
                  > SHINY!
                  >
                  > scribal arts:
                  >
                  >
                  > http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150165898386642.292073.728251641&l=c4602b7ffc&type=1
                  >
                  > ________________________________
                  > From: Joseph Belcher <iegrappling@... <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
                  > 'iegrappling%40aol.com');>>
                  > To: sig@yahoogroups.com <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
                  > 'sig%40yahoogroups.com');>
                  > Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2013 1:06 PM
                  > Subject: Re: [sig] Kievan Royal titles
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > I believe Grand Prince would be the most appropriate title for His reign.
                  > I unfortunately do no know the corresponding title (if there was one) for
                  > Her.
                  >
                  > -Halbrust
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: charles stefanich <mos6238@... <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
                  > 'mos6238%40yahoo.com');>>
                  > To: sig <sig@yahoogroups.com <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
                  > 'sig%40yahoogroups.com');>>
                  > Sent: Thu, Apr 18, 2013 9:59 am
                  > Subject: [sig] Kievan Royal titles
                  >
                  > Midrealm coronation is this May 4, 2013. Her Royal Highness as tasked me
                  > with finding appropriate titles for 9Th-10THC Kievan Rus rulers that they
                  > can use for their reign. Help with this will be very welcome and
                  > appreciated.
                  > In service,
                  > THL Istvan Valkai
                  > Squire to Duke Felix
                  > Apprentice to Master Zygmunt
                  > Great Slav of the Slavic Nation
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > Individual Email | Traditional
                  > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >

                  --
                  ----------------------------------------------------------

                  Lisa M. Kies, MD
                  Eagle Family Health
                  Nora Springs, IA 50458
                  www.eaglefamilyhealth.com
                  ----------------------------------------------------------

                  Lisa M. Kies, MD aka Sofya la Rus, OL, CW, CSH, druzhinnitsa Kramolnikova
                  Mason City, IA aka Shire of Heraldshill, Calontir
                  ___
                  http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser
                  {o,o}
                  "Mir znachit Pax Romanov"
                  (__(|
                  "Et nunc et semper, etiam atque etiam, et discere et exquire et
                  alia." -^-^-`
                  ----------------------------------------------------------

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • charles stefanich
                  Thanks so much. I will pass on both and let them chose. Is it possible to get a phonetic pronunciation of the Kievan Rus titles. I d hate to use my heralds
                  Message 8 of 12 , Apr 18, 2013
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Thanks so much. I will pass on both and let them chose. Is it possible to get a phonetic pronunciation of the Kievan Rus titles. I'd hate to use my heralds best guess when I speak with them.
                    Istvan Valkai


                    ________________________________
                    From: Lisa Kies <lkies319@...>
                    To: sig@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2013 3:15 PM
                    Subject: Re: [sig] Kievan Royal titles

                     
                    During the Kievan period, the terms Tsar, Tsaritsa, Tsarevna, etc. were
                    used to refer to the Byzantine emperor and his family, and for various
                    rulers in the Bible.

                    From the Russian primary chronicle:

                    988 [6496] "The Princess [tsaritsa] declared to him..." [The "Princess"
                    here is the sister of the Byzantine emperors.] царица... цари

                    During the Mongol period, the terms were used for the Mongol khan and his
                    family.

                    The first Russian ruler to use the title "tsar" (albeit inconsistently) was
                    Ivan III. His grandson, Ivan IV was the first to be _crowned_ tsar.

                    http://sofyalarus.info/Russia/titlesroyal.html

                    But the "tsar" titles are a lot easier to say than Velikii Knyaz and
                    Velikaya Knyaginya and were used in the Kievan period in Rus.

                    At your service,

                    Sofya

                    On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 1:46 PM, Joseph Belcher <mailto:iegrappling%40aol.com> wrote:

                    >
                    > Doing research now, I just found referrence (unverified) of Tsaritsa being
                    > used in the 10th century :o)
                    >
                    > -Halbrust
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    >
                    > We are also stepping up on May 4th but to save our populace from saying
                    > mouthful we are doing with Tsar and Tsaritsa which is well out of period
                    > or us.
                    >
                    >
                    > the female equivalent would be Velikaya Knyaginya
                    >
                    > Lada
                    >
                    > Oooooh...
                    > SHINY!
                    >
                    > scribal arts:
                    >
                    >
                    > http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150165898386642.292073.728251641&l=c4602b7ffc&type=1
                    >
                    > ________________________________
                    > From: Joseph Belcher <mailto:iegrappling%40aol.com <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
                    > 'iegrappling%40aol.com');>>
                    > To: mailto:sig%40yahoogroups.com <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
                    > 'sig%40yahoogroups.com');>
                    > Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2013 1:06 PM
                    > Subject: Re: [sig] Kievan Royal titles
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > I believe Grand Prince would be the most appropriate title for His reign.
                    > I unfortunately do no know the corresponding title (if there was one) for
                    > Her.
                    >
                    > -Halbrust
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: charles stefanich <mailto:mos6238%40yahoo.com <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
                    > 'mos6238%40yahoo.com');>>
                    > To: sig <mailto:sig%40yahoogroups.com <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
                    > 'sig%40yahoogroups.com');>>
                    > Sent: Thu, Apr 18, 2013 9:59 am
                    > Subject: [sig] Kievan Royal titles
                    >
                    > Midrealm coronation is this May 4, 2013. Her Royal Highness as tasked me
                    > with finding appropriate titles for 9Th-10THC Kievan Rus rulers that they
                    > can use for their reign. Help with this will be very welcome and
                    > appreciated.
                    > In service,
                    > THL Istvan Valkai
                    > Squire to Duke Felix
                    > Apprentice to Master Zygmunt
                    > Great Slav of the Slavic Nation
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > Individual Email | Traditional
                    > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >

                    --
                    ----------------------------------------------------------

                    Lisa M. Kies, MD
                    Eagle Family Health
                    Nora Springs, IA 50458
                    http://www.eaglefamilyhealth.com/
                    ----------------------------------------------------------

                    Lisa M. Kies, MD aka Sofya la Rus, OL, CW, CSH, druzhinnitsa Kramolnikova
                    Mason City, IA aka Shire of Heraldshill, Calontir
                    ___
                    http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser
                    {o,o}
                    "Mir znachit Pax Romanov"
                    (__(|
                    "Et nunc et semper, etiam atque etiam, et discere et exquire et
                    alia." -^-^-`
                    ----------------------------------------------------------

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Yevgeniya Pechenaya
                    Reading this discussion make me think that I would love and I think others would too to see a class on period Russian titles of all levels. just throwing it
                    Message 9 of 12 , Apr 18, 2013
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Reading this discussion make me think that I would love and I think others would too to see a class on period Russian titles of all levels.
                      just throwing it out there. :)


                       
                      Lada

                      Oooooh...
                      SHINY!


                      scribal arts:
                      http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150165898386642.292073.728251641&l=c4602b7ffc&type=1





                      ________________________________
                      From: charles stefanich <mos6238@...>
                      To: "sig@yahoogroups.com" <sig@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2013 3:23 PM
                      Subject: Re: [sig] Kievan Royal titles



                       
                      Thanks so much. I will pass on both and let them chose. Is it possible to get a phonetic pronunciation of the Kievan Rus titles. I'd hate to use my heralds best guess when I speak with them.
                      Istvan Valkai

                      ________________________________
                      From: Lisa Kies <lkies319@...>
                      To: sig@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2013 3:15 PM
                      Subject: Re: [sig] Kievan Royal titles

                       
                      During the Kievan period, the terms Tsar, Tsaritsa, Tsarevna, etc. were
                      used to refer to the Byzantine emperor and his family, and for various
                      rulers in the Bible.

                      From the Russian primary chronicle:

                      988 [6496] "The Princess [tsaritsa] declared to him..." [The "Princess"
                      here is the sister of the Byzantine emperors.] царица... цари

                      During the Mongol period, the terms were used for the Mongol khan and his
                      family.

                      The first Russian ruler to use the title "tsar" (albeit inconsistently) was
                      Ivan III. His grandson, Ivan IV was the first to be _crowned_ tsar.

                      http://sofyalarus.info/Russia/titlesroyal.html

                      But the "tsar" titles are a lot easier to say than Velikii Knyaz and
                      Velikaya Knyaginya and were used in the Kievan period in Rus.

                      At your service,

                      Sofya

                      On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 1:46 PM, Joseph Belcher <mailto:iegrappling%40aol.com> wrote:

                      >
                      > Doing research now, I just found referrence (unverified) of Tsaritsa being
                      > used in the 10th century :o)
                      >
                      > -Halbrust
                      >
                      > -----Original Message-----
                      >
                      > We are also stepping up on May 4th but to save our populace from saying
                      > mouthful we are doing with Tsar and Tsaritsa which is well out of period
                      > or us.
                      >
                      >
                      > the female equivalent would be Velikaya Knyaginya
                      >
                      > Lada
                      >
                      > Oooooh...
                      > SHINY!
                      >
                      > scribal arts:
                      >
                      >
                      > http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150165898386642.292073.728251641&l=c4602b7ffc&type=1
                      >
                      > ________________________________
                      > From: Joseph Belcher <mailto:iegrappling%40aol.com <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
                      > 'iegrappling%40aol.com');>>
                      > To: mailto:sig%40yahoogroups.com <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
                      > 'sig%40yahoogroups.com');>
                      > Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2013 1:06 PM
                      > Subject: Re: [sig] Kievan Royal titles
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > I believe Grand Prince would be the most appropriate title for His reign.
                      > I unfortunately do no know the corresponding title (if there was one) for
                      > Her.
                      >
                      > -Halbrust
                      >
                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: charles stefanich <mailto:mos6238%40yahoo.com <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
                      > 'mos6238%40yahoo.com');>>
                      > To: sig <mailto:sig%40yahoogroups.com <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
                      > 'sig%40yahoogroups.com');>>
                      > Sent: Thu, Apr 18, 2013 9:59 am
                      > Subject: [sig] Kievan Royal titles
                      >
                      > Midrealm coronation is this May 4, 2013. Her Royal Highness as tasked me
                      > with finding appropriate titles for 9Th-10THC Kievan Rus rulers that they
                      > can use for their reign. Help with this will be very welcome and
                      > appreciated.
                      > In service,
                      > THL Istvan Valkai
                      > Squire to Duke Felix
                      > Apprentice to Master Zygmunt
                      > Great Slav of the Slavic Nation
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > Individual Email | Traditional
                      > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >

                      --
                      ----------------------------------------------------------

                      Lisa M. Kies, MD
                      Eagle Family Health
                      Nora Springs, IA 50458
                      http://www.eaglefamilyhealth.com/
                      ----------------------------------------------------------

                      Lisa M. Kies, MD aka Sofya la Rus, OL, CW, CSH, druzhinnitsa Kramolnikova
                      Mason City, IA aka Shire of Heraldshill, Calontir
                      ___
                      http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser
                      {o,o}
                      "Mir znachit Pax Romanov"
                      (__(|
                      "Et nunc et semper, etiam atque etiam, et discere et exquire et
                      alia." -^-^-`
                      ----------------------------------------------------------

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Lisa Kies
                      Come to Heralds Point at Lilies and I ll give you my class. :-) Pronunciations can be found here: http://russiansig.wikispaces.com/SCA+Alternative+Titles
                      Message 10 of 12 , Apr 18, 2013
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Come to Heralds Point at Lilies and I'll give you my class. :-)

                        Pronunciations can be found here:
                        http://russiansig.wikispaces.com/SCA+Alternative+Titles

                        Sofya


                        On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 2:27 PM, Yevgeniya Pechenaya
                        <ladie_lada@...>wrote:

                        > Reading this discussion make me think that I would love and I think others
                        > would too to see a class on period Russian titles of all levels.
                        > just throwing it out there. :)
                        >
                        >


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Dezz Windecker-Klassen
                        Hi,   I live up in the Principality of Avacal and was wondering if there is any class material that you would be willing to share?   Sincerely,   HE
                        Message 11 of 12 , Apr 19, 2013
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Hi,
                           
                          I live up in the Principality of Avacal and was wondering if there is any class material that you would be willing to share?
                           
                          Sincerely,
                           
                          HE Dezzrianne Draganova doch'
                           

                          ________________________________
                          From: Lisa Kies <lkies319@...>
                          To: sig@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2013 1:46:43 PM
                          Subject: Re: [sig] Kievan Royal titles


                           

                          Come to Heralds Point at Lilies and I'll give you my class. :-)

                          Pronunciations can be found here:
                          http://russiansig.wikispaces.com/SCA+Alternative+Titles

                          Sofya

                          On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 2:27 PM, Yevgeniya Pechenaya
                          <mailto:ladie_lada%40yahoo.com>wrote:

                          > Reading this discussion make me think that I would love and I think others
                          > would too to see a class on period Russian titles of all levels.
                          > just throwing it out there. :)
                          >
                          >

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Lisa Kies
                          Greetings from Sofya, On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 9:25 AM, Dezz Windecker-Klassen
                          Message 12 of 12 , Apr 20, 2013
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Greetings from Sofya,


                            On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 9:25 AM, Dezz Windecker-Klassen <
                            dezzrianne@...> wrote:

                            > Hi,
                            >
                            > I live up in the Principality of Avacal and was wondering if there is any
                            > class material that you would be willing to share?
                            >
                            > Sincerely,
                            >
                            > HE Dezzrianne Draganova doch'
                            >
                            >
                            The class material is in the form of a Power Point presentation which is a
                            somewhat awkward thing to put on-line. But, the class was based on my
                            research notes which you can find here:

                            http://www.sofyalarus.info/Russia/titles.html

                            At your service,

                            Sofya

                            ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                            Lisa M. Kies, MD aka Sofya la Rus, OL, CW, CSH, druzhinnitsa Kramolnikova
                            Mason City, IA aka Shire of Heraldshill, Calontir
                            ___
                            http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser
                            {o,o}
                            "Mir znachit Pax Romanov"
                            (__(|
                            "Et nunc et semper, etiam atque etiam, et discere et exquire et
                            alia." -^-^-`
                            ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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