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Registering a Russian household name in the SCA

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  • Joseph Belcher
    I believe the correct formation of a Russian household name to be Dom, Doma, or Domu followed by a family name. I believe that name should be patronimic name,
    Message 1 of 5 , Apr 12, 2013
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      I believe the correct formation of a Russian household name to be Dom, Doma, or Domu followed by a family name. I believe that name should be patronimic name, but also believe this could be a patronimic locative byname as described at http://heraldry.sca.org/laurel/names/toprus.html

      The SCA College of Arms has a published Precedent saying “[Household name Dom Kazimira] This submission was documented as the Russian translation of the phrase House of Kazimir. However, no evidence was presented that Dom was a term used to describe a group of people in period Russia. In addition, no evidence was presented as to how household names in Russian might be formed from personal names; it is unclear whether they would use the given name, a patronymic form, a byname, or some other kind of element. Barring such evidence, this household name cannot be registered.”

      I have found references in Russian to:
      дома Романовых (Dom Romanov) as early as 1834

      And in Ukranian to:
      дому; Давида (House of David[of Nazareth]) -1674
      Also in Ukranian:
      сівши на царственому своєму престолі у Києві, почав про себе роздумувати, і як мудрий будівник дому свого міркувати, як би його дванадцятеро синів по смерті батьковій в мирі і нерушимій братській любові перебували, не маючи міжусобних незгод і кровопролить через княжіння. (sitting on his throne in the royal Kiev began to reflect on themselves, and as a wise builder of his house speculate as to his twelve sons after the death of his father in peace and brotherly love were unmoved, having internecine slaughters and disagreements over reign.)

      I have several bible passages which refernce "house of ____". The Ostrog Bible was the first printed Russian Bible and was printed in 1580. There are apparently digitized versions of it, but I haven't been able to locate one yet. I'm hoping when I do find one the name will be in the "dom-name" format.

      If anyone else can help and pitch in some info, research, or insite I'd really appreciate it.

      -Halbrust




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Lisa Kies
      Greetings from Sofya, Perfect timing. I was cleaning this morning and about to throw away a duplicate copy of the dom pages from Sreznevskii (Sreznevskij,
      Message 2 of 5 , Apr 13, 2013
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        Greetings from Sofya,

        Perfect timing. I was cleaning this morning and about to throw away a
        duplicate copy of the "dom" pages from Sreznevskii (Sreznevskij, I.I.
        *���������
        ��� ������� ������-�������� ����� �� ����������� ����������.* [Materials
        for a Dictionary of the old-Russian Language according to written
        memorials.] The Department of Russian Language and Literature, Imperial
        Academy of Science. 1893-1912.)

        Meanings of dom in Sreznevskii include: 1. dwelling, building. 2.
        household equipment, domestic arrangement/structure. 3. family (sem'ya),
        home/house/household (domashnie). 4. family/stock (rod). 5. estate,
        property.

        Under #3 and #4, we have multiple period quotes listed, including:
        "i verova sam" i dom" iego ves' ", from the Ostromirov Gospel (yr 1056-57)
        John 4:53 (Transl: and he himself believed and all his house).

        "(Iosif") ot" domou i ochestva D~vdova", *ibid*, Luke 1:27 (from the house
        and lineage of David).

        On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 5:50 PM, Joseph Belcher <iegrappling@...> wrote:

        >
        > I have several bible passages which refernce "house of ____". The Ostrog
        > Bible was the first printed Russian Bible and was printed in 1580. There
        > are apparently digitized versions of it, but I haven't been able to locate
        > one yet. I'm hoping when I do find one the name will be in the "dom-name"
        > format.
        >
        > If anyone else can help and pitch in some info, research, or insite I'd
        > really appreciate it.
        >
        > -Halbrust
        >
        >
        Electronic copies of the relevant pages can be provided for submission
        purposes.

        At your service,

        Sofya

        ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

        Lisa M. Kies, MD aka Sofya la Rus, OL, CW, CSH, druzhinnitsa Kramolnikova
        Mason City, IA aka Shire of Heraldshill, Calontir
        ___
        http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser
        {o,o}
        "Mir znachit Pax Romanov"
        (__(|
        "Et nunc et semper, etiam atque etiam, et discere et exquire et
        alia." -^-^-`
        ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • halbrust_of_caid
        Wow! What luck for me, thank you. Do you have images of the originals? Or just transcriptions? How can I get whatever you have? -Halbrust Sent from my iPhone
        Message 3 of 5 , Apr 13, 2013
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          Wow! What luck for me, thank you.

          Do you have images of the originals? Or just transcriptions?

          How can I get whatever you have?

          -Halbrust

          Sent from my iPhone

          On Apr 13, 2013, at 11:35 AM, Lisa Kies <lkies319@...> wrote:

          > Greetings from Sofya,
          >
          > Perfect timing. I was cleaning this morning and about to throw away a
          > duplicate copy of the "dom" pages from Sreznevskii (Sreznevskij, I.I.
          > *���������
          > ��� ������� ������-�������� ����� �� ����������� ����������.* [Materials
          > for a Dictionary of the old-Russian Language according to written
          > memorials.] The Department of Russian Language and Literature, Imperial
          > Academy of Science. 1893-1912.)
          >
          > Meanings of dom in Sreznevskii include: 1. dwelling, building. 2.
          > household equipment, domestic arrangement/structure. 3. family (sem'ya),
          > home/house/household (domashnie). 4. family/stock (rod). 5. estate,
          > property.
          >
          > Under #3 and #4, we have multiple period quotes listed, including:
          > "i verova sam" i dom" iego ves' ", from the Ostromirov Gospel (yr 1056-57)
          > John 4:53 (Transl: and he himself believed and all his house).
          >
          > "(Iosif") ot" domou i ochestva D~vdova", *ibid*, Luke 1:27 (from the house
          > and lineage of David).
          >
          > On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 5:50 PM, Joseph Belcher <iegrappling@...> wrote:
          >
          >>
          >> I have several bible passages which refernce "house of ____". The Ostrog
          >> Bible was the first printed Russian Bible and was printed in 1580. There
          >> are apparently digitized versions of it, but I haven't been able to locate
          >> one yet. I'm hoping when I do find one the name will be in the "dom-name"
          >> format.
          >>
          >> If anyone else can help and pitch in some info, research, or insite I'd
          >> really appreciate it.
          >>
          >> -Halbrust
          >>
          >>
          > Electronic copies of the relevant pages can be provided for submission
          > purposes.
          >
          > At your service,
          >
          > Sofya
          >
          > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
          >
          > Lisa M. Kies, MD aka Sofya la Rus, OL, CW, CSH, druzhinnitsa Kramolnikova
          > Mason City, IA aka Shire of Heraldshill, Calontir
          > ___
          > http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser
          > {o,o}
          > "Mir znachit Pax Romanov"
          > (__(|
          > "Et nunc et semper, etiam atque etiam, et discere et exquire et
          > alia." -^-^-`
          > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
        • Lisa Kies
          Greetings from Sofya, ... I finally tracked down the link: http://imwerden.de/pdf/sreznevsky_slovar_drevnerusskogo_jazyka_tom1_a-k.pdf You ll need the title
          Message 4 of 5 , Apr 14, 2013
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            Greetings from Sofya,


            On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 7:47 PM, <iegrappling@...> wrote:

            > Wow! What luck for me, thank you.
            >
            > Do you have images of the originals? Or just transcriptions?
            >
            > How can I get whatever you have?
            >
            > -Halbrust
            >
            > Sent from my iPhone
            >
            > On Apr 13, 2013, at 11:35 AM, Lisa Kies <lkies319@...> wrote:
            >
            > > Greetings from Sofya,
            > >
            > > Perfect timing. I was cleaning this morning and about to throw away a
            > > duplicate copy of the "dom" pages from Sreznevskii (Sreznevskij, I.I.
            > * [Materials
            > > for a Dictionary of the old-Russian Language according to written
            > > memorials.] The Department of Russian Language and Literature, Imperial
            > > Academy of Science. 1893-1912.)
            >

            I finally tracked down the link:
            http://imwerden.de/pdf/sreznevsky_slovar_drevnerusskogo_jazyka_tom1_a-k.pdf

            You'll need the title page, page 699-700 (highlighting the key passages -
            toward the bottom of the second column), and page 32 of the Ukazatel'
            Sokrashchenij at the end of the PDF (for the date of the original gospel
            source).

            At your service,

            Sofya

            ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            Lisa M. Kies, MD aka Sofya la Rus, OL, CW, CSH, druzhinnitsa Kramolnikova
            Mason City, IA aka Shire of Heraldshill, Calontir
            ___
            http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser
            {o,o}
            "Mir znachit Pax Romanov"
            (__(|
            "Et nunc et semper, etiam atque etiam, et discere et exquire et
            alia." -^-^-`
            ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Joseph Belcher
            Thank you SO much. -Halbrust ... From: Lisa Kies To: sig Sent: Sun, Apr 14, 2013 7:22 am Subject: Re: [sig]
            Message 5 of 5 , Apr 15, 2013
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              Thank you SO much.

              -Halbrust


              -----Original Message-----
              From: Lisa Kies <lkies319@...>
              To: sig <sig@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Sun, Apr 14, 2013 7:22 am
              Subject: Re: [sig] Registering a Russian household name in the SCA




              Greetings from Sofya,

              On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 7:47 PM, <iegrappling@...> wrote:

              > Wow! What luck for me, thank you.
              >
              > Do you have images of the originals? Or just transcriptions?
              >
              > How can I get whatever you have?
              >
              > -Halbrust
              >
              > Sent from my iPhone
              >
              > On Apr 13, 2013, at 11:35 AM, Lisa Kies <lkies319@...> wrote:
              >
              > > Greetings from Sofya,
              > >
              > > Perfect timing. I was cleaning this morning and about to throw away a
              > > duplicate copy of the "dom" pages from Sreznevskii (Sreznevskij, I.I.
              > * [Materials
              > > for a Dictionary of the old-Russian Language according to written
              > > memorials.] The Department of Russian Language and Literature, Imperial
              > > Academy of Science. 1893-1912.)
              >

              I finally tracked down the link:
              http://imwerden.de/pdf/sreznevsky_slovar_drevnerusskogo_jazyka_tom1_a-k.pdf

              You'll need the title page, page 699-700 (highlighting the key passages -
              toward the bottom of the second column), and page 32 of the Ukazatel'
              Sokrashchenij at the end of the PDF (for the date of the original gospel
              source).

              At your service,

              Sofya

              ----------------------------------------------------------

              Lisa M. Kies, MD aka Sofya la Rus, OL, CW, CSH, druzhinnitsa Kramolnikova
              Mason City, IA aka Shire of Heraldshill, Calontir
              ___
              http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser
              {o,o}
              "Mir znachit Pax Romanov"
              (__(|
              "Et nunc et semper, etiam atque etiam, et discere et exquire et
              alia." -^-^-`
              ----------------------------------------------------------

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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