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Re: [sig] Alcohol in Russia in the 10th and 11th century

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  • Tim Nalley
    Just ordered a copy of Culinaria Russia! Any ideas where a copy of R. Roberts hop paper could be acquired? I just built a hop yard for my mundane brewing and
    Message 1 of 16 , Mar 29, 2013
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      Just ordered a copy of Culinaria Russia! Any ideas where a copy of R. Roberts hop paper could be acquired? I just built a hop yard for my mundane brewing and would love to expand it in future days! Thanks!
      -dok


      From my Android phone on T-Mobile. The first nationwide 4G network.

      -------- Original message --------
      Subject: Re: [sig] Alcohol in Russia in the 10th and 11th century
      From: aldo <turanomar@...>
      To: sig@yahoogroups.com
      CC:

      One of my source for such topics which I may suggest is:

      CULINARIA RUSSIA, by Marion TRUTTER (edit.) Tandem Verlag GmbH 2006

      Some more:

      Food Culture in Russia and Central Asia, by Glenn R. Mack & Asele Surina,
      Westport Conn. 2005
      V. Pohliobkin - Nacional'nye kuhni nasih narodov, Moskva 2009

      As far as Humulus lupulus (hop) is concerned the sole study (complete and
      fully documented) is R. Kobert's thereupon (Dorpat Univ.). The first peoples
      to use hop to give a new taste to beer were the Finno-ugrians of the Upper
      Volga-Kama while this use firstly appeared in Western Europe roughly by the
      Barbarians epoch (AD VIII cent.). HUMULUS which was the Latin name for Hop
      comes from Tchuvash hemla, Finn. humala Hung. komlò and still today the
      European largest exporter of Hop for beer is the Republic of Tscuvasha not
      far from Moscow.
      Could it be of any use to u?

      -----Messaggio originale-----
      From: goldschp tds.net
      Sent: Friday, March 29, 2013 4:35 AM
      To: sig@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [sig] Alcohol in Russia in the 10th and 11th century

      Very interesting summary. Where is you finding information on food and
      drink? I know that others are interested.

      I'm a little surprised on that early date on hopped beer. I realize that
      it existed in the 11th century, but was it really that common? What's your
      source?

      Is "privo" a misspelling for "pivo" (the modern word for beer)?

      Thanks for sharing this. I'll probably be begging you for an article for
      Slovo as well. :)

      Paul

      On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 6:18 PM, Joseph Belcher <iegrappling@...> wrote:

      > **
      >
      > Per my research on alcohol in Russia in the 10th and 11th century:
      > · Kvas and mead were common drinks throughout the period
      > · Hopped beer was common in the 11th century
      > · Imported wine was drank, but it was a rarity
      > · Alcohol was taxed as early as the 11th century
      > · Med was the term for mead, as well as for honey
      > · Beer had many terms, and my sources do not overlap on terms
      > o Privo was the term for hopped beer (unsure if un-hopped beer had a
      > different name)
      > o Ol, oll, and olovina were hopped beers
      > o Siker is said to be a “virtual synonym” to ol, oll, and olovina (does
      > the word virtual possibly note that silker was un-hopped beer?)
      >
      > If anyone can confirm or refute any of my findings, I would greatly
      > appreciate it. I will continue my research, but guidance is always a great
      > thing.
      >
      > -Halbrust
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

      ------------------------------------

      Yahoo! Groups Links



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Joseph Belcher
      OF COURSE! ... From: Tim Nalley To: sig Sent: Fri, Mar 29, 2013 12:18 pm Subject: Re: [sig] Alcohol in Russia in the
      Message 2 of 16 , Mar 29, 2013
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        OF COURSE!



        -----Original Message-----
        From: Tim Nalley <mordakus@...>
        To: sig <sig@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Fri, Mar 29, 2013 12:18 pm
        Subject: Re: [sig] Alcohol in Russia in the 10th and 11th century




        Awesome! When you work it out and publish, can I try it out?
        'dok

        From my Android phone on T-Mobile. The first nationwide 4G network.

        -------- Original message --------
        Subject: Re: [sig] Alcohol in Russia in the 10th and 11th century
        From: Joseph Belcher <iegrappling@...>
        To: sig@yahoogroups.com
        CC:

        I am a brewer.
        This research is for a particular drink served by Grand Prince Vladiir to Dobrynya.

        -Halbrust

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Tim Nalley <mordakus@...>
        To: sig <sig@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Fri, Mar 29, 2013 11:37 am
        Subject: Re: [sig] Alcohol in Russia in the 10th and 11th century

        Halbrust-
        Are you also a brewer? Sometime this coming month and into this summer I was going to integrate some experimental one gallon test batches of unhopped beer into my normal brewing schedule! Maybe we could collaborate, like a brewing double blind? I was planning ales for ease but lack a bread shed for natural yeasting. I would love to aid you in your research, which is very cool, and pursue my own passion for brewing.
        'dok

        From my Android phone on T-Mobile. The first nationwide 4G network.

        -------- Original message --------
        Subject: Re: [sig] Alcohol in Russia in the 10th and 11th century
        From: Joseph Belcher <iegrappling@...>
        To: sig@yahoogroups.com
        CC:

        Thank you to EVERYONE who replied!!! I will take your info and your sources into consideration as I continue my research.

        The two main sources I have used so far are:
        · Christian, David. 'Living Water' : Vodka and Russian Society on the Eve of Emancipation: Vodka and Russian Society on the Eve of Emancipation. Oxford University Press, 1990
        · Smith, Robert EF and Christian, David. Bread and Salt: A Social and Economic History of Food and Drink in Rusia. Cambridge University Press, 1984

        -Halbrust

        -----Original Message-----
        From: goldschp tds.net <goldschp@...>
        To: sig <sig@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Thu, Mar 28, 2013 8:35 pm
        Subject: Re: [sig] Alcohol in Russia in the 10th and 11th century

        Very interesting summary. Where is you finding information on food and
        rink? I know that others are interested.
        I'm a little surprised on that early date on hopped beer. I realize that
        t existed in the 11th century, but was it really that common? What's your
        ource?
        Is "privo" a misspelling for "pivo" (the modern word for beer)?

        hanks for sharing this. I'll probably be begging you for an article for
        lovo as well. :)
        Paul

        n Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 6:18 PM, Joseph Belcher <iegrappling@...> wrote:
        > **

        Per my research on alcohol in Russia in the 10th and 11th century:
        � Kvas and mead were common drinks throughout the period
        � Hopped beer was common in the 11th century
        � Imported wine was drank, but it was a rarity
        � Alcohol was taxed as early as the 11th century
        � Med was the term for mead, as well as for honey
        � Beer had many terms, and my sources do not overlap on terms
        o Privo was the term for hopped beer (unsure if un-hopped beer had a
        different name)
        o Ol, oll, and olovina were hopped beers
        o Siker is said to be a �virtual synonym� to ol, oll, and olovina (does
        the word virtual possibly note that silker was un-hopped beer?)

        If anyone can confirm or refute any of my findings, I would greatly
        appreciate it. I will continue my research, but guidance is always a great
        thing.

        -Halbrust

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        ------------------------------------
        Yahoo! Groups Links
        Individual Email | Traditional
        http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Joseph Belcher
        You have me intrigued... Are you using herbs that grow naturally in Eastern Europe? -Halbrust ... From: Tim Nalley To: sig
        Message 3 of 16 , Mar 29, 2013
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          You have me intrigued...
          Are you using herbs that grow naturally in Eastern Europe?

          -Halbrust

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Tim Nalley <mordakus@...>
          To: sig <sig@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Fri, Mar 29, 2013 12:25 pm
          Subject: Re: [sig] Alcohol in Russia in the 10th and 11th century




          Btw, I'm doing small batch research next month using herbs as bittering, flavoring and aroma agents, no hops. Want my research and samples?
          'dok

          From my Android phone on T-Mobile. The first nationwide 4G network.

          -------- Original message --------
          Subject: Re: [sig] Alcohol in Russia in the 10th and 11th century
          From: Joseph Belcher <iegrappling@...>
          To: sig@yahoogroups.com
          CC:

          I am a brewer.
          This research is for a particular drink served by Grand Prince Vladiir to Dobrynya.

          -Halbrust

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Tim Nalley <mordakus@...>
          To: sig <sig@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Fri, Mar 29, 2013 11:37 am
          Subject: Re: [sig] Alcohol in Russia in the 10th and 11th century

          Halbrust-
          Are you also a brewer? Sometime this coming month and into this summer I was going to integrate some experimental one gallon test batches of unhopped beer into my normal brewing schedule! Maybe we could collaborate, like a brewing double blind? I was planning ales for ease but lack a bread shed for natural yeasting. I would love to aid you in your research, which is very cool, and pursue my own passion for brewing.
          'dok

          From my Android phone on T-Mobile. The first nationwide 4G network.

          -------- Original message --------
          Subject: Re: [sig] Alcohol in Russia in the 10th and 11th century
          From: Joseph Belcher <iegrappling@...>
          To: sig@yahoogroups.com
          CC:

          Thank you to EVERYONE who replied!!! I will take your info and your sources into consideration as I continue my research.

          The two main sources I have used so far are:
          · Christian, David. 'Living Water' : Vodka and Russian Society on the Eve of Emancipation: Vodka and Russian Society on the Eve of Emancipation. Oxford University Press, 1990
          · Smith, Robert EF and Christian, David. Bread and Salt: A Social and Economic History of Food and Drink in Rusia. Cambridge University Press, 1984

          -Halbrust

          -----Original Message-----
          From: goldschp tds.net <goldschp@...>
          To: sig <sig@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Thu, Mar 28, 2013 8:35 pm
          Subject: Re: [sig] Alcohol in Russia in the 10th and 11th century

          Very interesting summary. Where is you finding information on food and
          rink? I know that others are interested.
          I'm a little surprised on that early date on hopped beer. I realize that
          t existed in the 11th century, but was it really that common? What's your
          ource?
          Is "privo" a misspelling for "pivo" (the modern word for beer)?

          hanks for sharing this. I'll probably be begging you for an article for
          lovo as well. :)
          Paul

          n Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 6:18 PM, Joseph Belcher <iegrappling@...> wrote:
          > **

          Per my research on alcohol in Russia in the 10th and 11th century:
          � Kvas and mead were common drinks throughout the period
          � Hopped beer was common in the 11th century
          � Imported wine was drank, but it was a rarity
          � Alcohol was taxed as early as the 11th century
          � Med was the term for mead, as well as for honey
          � Beer had many terms, and my sources do not overlap on terms
          o Privo was the term for hopped beer (unsure if un-hopped beer had a
          different name)
          o Ol, oll, and olovina were hopped beers
          o Siker is said to be a �virtual synonym� to ol, oll, and olovina (does
          the word virtual possibly note that silker was un-hopped beer?)

          If anyone can confirm or refute any of my findings, I would greatly
          appreciate it. I will continue my research, but guidance is always a great
          thing.

          -Halbrust

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

          Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

          ------------------------------------
          Yahoo! Groups Links
          Individual Email | Traditional
          http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Tim Nalley
          Actually, thats what I wanted to chat about. My wife is an apothecaress in the society with a very respectable library of period english, german and arabic
          Message 4 of 16 , Mar 29, 2013
          • 0 Attachment
            Actually, thats what I wanted to chat about. My wife is an apothecaress in the society with a very respectable library of period english, german and arabic sources,  but thats the furthest east. I myself have a library of brewing book rapidly gaining respectability, including a great starter book on brewing herbs whose main value is steering me clear of tragedy, until my learning curve reaches equilibrium with my drive. 
                  Russian and E.E. herbs were to be my next google search and book purchase this weekend! Imagine my surprise!
            'dok


            From my Android phone on T-Mobile. The first nationwide 4G network.

            -------- Original message --------
            Subject: Re: [sig] Alcohol in Russia in the 10th and 11th century
            From: Joseph Belcher <iegrappling@...>
            To: sig@yahoogroups.com
            CC:


            You have me intrigued...
            Are you using herbs that grow naturally in Eastern Europe?

            -Halbrust

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Tim Nalley <mordakus@...>
            To: sig <sig@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Fri, Mar 29, 2013 12:25 pm
            Subject: Re: [sig] Alcohol in Russia in the 10th and 11th century

            Btw, I'm doing small batch research next month using herbs as bittering, flavoring and aroma agents, no hops. Want my research and samples?
            'dok

            From my Android phone on T-Mobile. The first nationwide 4G network.

            -------- Original message --------
            Subject: Re: [sig] Alcohol in Russia in the 10th and 11th century
            From: Joseph Belcher <iegrappling@...>
            To: sig@yahoogroups.com
            CC:

            I am a brewer.
            This research is for a particular drink served by Grand Prince Vladiir to Dobrynya.

            -Halbrust

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Tim Nalley <mordakus@...>
            To: sig <sig@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Fri, Mar 29, 2013 11:37 am
            Subject: Re: [sig] Alcohol in Russia in the 10th and 11th century

            Halbrust-
            Are you also a brewer? Sometime this coming month and into this summer I was going to integrate some experimental one gallon test batches of unhopped beer into my normal brewing schedule! Maybe we could collaborate, like a brewing double blind? I was planning ales for ease but lack a bread shed for natural yeasting. I would love to aid you in your research, which is very cool, and pursue my own passion for brewing.
            'dok

            From my Android phone on T-Mobile. The first nationwide 4G network.

            -------- Original message --------
            Subject: Re: [sig] Alcohol in Russia in the 10th and 11th century
            From: Joseph Belcher <iegrappling@...>
            To: sig@yahoogroups.com
            CC:

            Thank you to EVERYONE who replied!!! I will take your info and your sources into consideration as I continue my research.

            The two main sources I have used so far are:
            · Christian, David. 'Living Water' : Vodka and Russian Society on the Eve of Emancipation: Vodka and Russian Society on the Eve of Emancipation. Oxford University Press, 1990
            · Smith, Robert EF and Christian, David. Bread and Salt: A Social and Economic History of Food and Drink in Rusia. Cambridge University Press, 1984

            -Halbrust

            -----Original Message-----
            From: goldschp tds.net <goldschp@...>
            To: sig <sig@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Thu, Mar 28, 2013 8:35 pm
            Subject: Re: [sig] Alcohol in Russia in the 10th and 11th century

            Very interesting summary. Where is you finding information on food and
            rink? I know that others are interested.
            I'm a little surprised on that early date on hopped beer. I realize that
            t existed in the 11th century, but was it really that common? What's your
            ource?
            Is "privo" a misspelling for "pivo" (the modern word for beer)?

            hanks for sharing this. I'll probably be begging you for an article for
            lovo as well. :)
            Paul

            n Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 6:18 PM, Joseph Belcher <iegrappling@...> wrote:
            > **

            Per my research on alcohol in Russia in the 10th and 11th century:
            � Kvas and mead were common drinks throughout the period
            � Hopped beer was common in the 11th century
            � Imported wine was drank, but it was a rarity
            � Alcohol was taxed as early as the 11th century
            � Med was the term for mead, as well as for honey
            � Beer had many terms, and my sources do not overlap on terms
            o Privo was the term for hopped beer (unsure if un-hopped beer had a
            different name)
            o Ol, oll, and olovina were hopped beers
            o Siker is said to be a �virtual synonym� to ol, oll, and olovina (does
            the word virtual possibly note that silker was un-hopped beer?)

            If anyone can confirm or refute any of my findings, I would greatly
            appreciate it. I will continue my research, but guidance is always a great
            thing.

            -Halbrust

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            ------------------------------------
            Yahoo! Groups Links
            Individual Email | Traditional
            http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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