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Re: [sig] Alcohol in Russia in the 10th and 11th century

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  • Tim Nalley
    Awesome! When you work it out and publish, can I try it out? dok From my Android phone on T-Mobile. The first nationwide 4G network. ... Subject: Re: [sig]
    Message 1 of 16 , Mar 29, 2013
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      Awesome! When you work it out and publish, can I try it out?
      'dok


      From my Android phone on T-Mobile. The first nationwide 4G network.

      -------- Original message --------
      Subject: Re: [sig] Alcohol in Russia in the 10th and 11th century
      From: Joseph Belcher <iegrappling@...>
      To: sig@yahoogroups.com
      CC:


      I am a brewer.
      This research is for a particular drink served by Grand Prince Vladiir to Dobrynya.

      -Halbrust

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Tim Nalley <mordakus@...>
      To: sig <sig@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Fri, Mar 29, 2013 11:37 am
      Subject: Re: [sig] Alcohol in Russia in the 10th and 11th century

      Halbrust-
      Are you also a brewer? Sometime this coming month and into this summer I was going to integrate some experimental one gallon test batches of unhopped beer into my normal brewing schedule! Maybe we could collaborate, like a brewing double blind? I was planning ales for ease but lack a bread shed for natural yeasting. I would love to aid you in your research, which is very cool, and pursue my own passion for brewing.
      'dok

      From my Android phone on T-Mobile. The first nationwide 4G network.

      -------- Original message --------
      Subject: Re: [sig] Alcohol in Russia in the 10th and 11th century
      From: Joseph Belcher <iegrappling@...>
      To: sig@yahoogroups.com
      CC:

      Thank you to EVERYONE who replied!!! I will take your info and your sources into consideration as I continue my research.

      The two main sources I have used so far are:
      · Christian, David. 'Living Water' : Vodka and Russian Society on the Eve of Emancipation: Vodka and Russian Society on the Eve of Emancipation. Oxford University Press, 1990
      · Smith, Robert EF and Christian, David. Bread and Salt: A Social and Economic History of Food and Drink in Rusia. Cambridge University Press, 1984

      -Halbrust

      -----Original Message-----
      From: goldschp tds.net <goldschp@...>
      To: sig <sig@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Thu, Mar 28, 2013 8:35 pm
      Subject: Re: [sig] Alcohol in Russia in the 10th and 11th century

      Very interesting summary. Where is you finding information on food and
      rink? I know that others are interested.
      I'm a little surprised on that early date on hopped beer. I realize that
      t existed in the 11th century, but was it really that common? What's your
      ource?
      Is "privo" a misspelling for "pivo" (the modern word for beer)?

      hanks for sharing this. I'll probably be begging you for an article for
      lovo as well. :)
      Paul

      n Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 6:18 PM, Joseph Belcher <iegrappling@...> wrote:
      > **

      Per my research on alcohol in Russia in the 10th and 11th century:
      � Kvas and mead were common drinks throughout the period
      � Hopped beer was common in the 11th century
      � Imported wine was drank, but it was a rarity
      � Alcohol was taxed as early as the 11th century
      � Med was the term for mead, as well as for honey
      � Beer had many terms, and my sources do not overlap on terms
      o Privo was the term for hopped beer (unsure if un-hopped beer had a
      different name)
      o Ol, oll, and olovina were hopped beers
      o Siker is said to be a �virtual synonym� to ol, oll, and olovina (does
      the word virtual possibly note that silker was un-hopped beer?)

      If anyone can confirm or refute any of my findings, I would greatly
      appreciate it. I will continue my research, but guidance is always a great
      thing.

      -Halbrust

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

      Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

      ------------------------------------
      Yahoo! Groups Links
      Individual Email | Traditional
      http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

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    • Tim Nalley
      Btw, I m doing small batch research next month using herbs as bittering, flavoring and aroma agents, no hops. Want my research and samples? dok From my
      Message 2 of 16 , Mar 29, 2013
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        Btw, I'm doing small batch research next month using herbs as bittering, flavoring and aroma agents, no hops. Want my research and samples?
        'dok


        From my Android phone on T-Mobile. The first nationwide 4G network.

        -------- Original message --------
        Subject: Re: [sig] Alcohol in Russia in the 10th and 11th century
        From: Joseph Belcher <iegrappling@...>
        To: sig@yahoogroups.com
        CC:


        I am a brewer.
        This research is for a particular drink served by Grand Prince Vladiir to Dobrynya.

        -Halbrust

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Tim Nalley <mordakus@...>
        To: sig <sig@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Fri, Mar 29, 2013 11:37 am
        Subject: Re: [sig] Alcohol in Russia in the 10th and 11th century

        Halbrust-
        Are you also a brewer? Sometime this coming month and into this summer I was going to integrate some experimental one gallon test batches of unhopped beer into my normal brewing schedule! Maybe we could collaborate, like a brewing double blind? I was planning ales for ease but lack a bread shed for natural yeasting. I would love to aid you in your research, which is very cool, and pursue my own passion for brewing.
        'dok

        From my Android phone on T-Mobile. The first nationwide 4G network.

        -------- Original message --------
        Subject: Re: [sig] Alcohol in Russia in the 10th and 11th century
        From: Joseph Belcher <iegrappling@...>
        To: sig@yahoogroups.com
        CC:

        Thank you to EVERYONE who replied!!! I will take your info and your sources into consideration as I continue my research.

        The two main sources I have used so far are:
        · Christian, David. 'Living Water' : Vodka and Russian Society on the Eve of Emancipation: Vodka and Russian Society on the Eve of Emancipation. Oxford University Press, 1990
        · Smith, Robert EF and Christian, David. Bread and Salt: A Social and Economic History of Food and Drink in Rusia. Cambridge University Press, 1984

        -Halbrust

        -----Original Message-----
        From: goldschp tds.net <goldschp@...>
        To: sig <sig@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Thu, Mar 28, 2013 8:35 pm
        Subject: Re: [sig] Alcohol in Russia in the 10th and 11th century

        Very interesting summary. Where is you finding information on food and
        rink? I know that others are interested.
        I'm a little surprised on that early date on hopped beer. I realize that
        t existed in the 11th century, but was it really that common? What's your
        ource?
        Is "privo" a misspelling for "pivo" (the modern word for beer)?

        hanks for sharing this. I'll probably be begging you for an article for
        lovo as well. :)
        Paul

        n Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 6:18 PM, Joseph Belcher <iegrappling@...> wrote:
        > **

        Per my research on alcohol in Russia in the 10th and 11th century:
        � Kvas and mead were common drinks throughout the period
        � Hopped beer was common in the 11th century
        � Imported wine was drank, but it was a rarity
        � Alcohol was taxed as early as the 11th century
        � Med was the term for mead, as well as for honey
        � Beer had many terms, and my sources do not overlap on terms
        o Privo was the term for hopped beer (unsure if un-hopped beer had a
        different name)
        o Ol, oll, and olovina were hopped beers
        o Siker is said to be a �virtual synonym� to ol, oll, and olovina (does
        the word virtual possibly note that silker was un-hopped beer?)

        If anyone can confirm or refute any of my findings, I would greatly
        appreciate it. I will continue my research, but guidance is always a great
        thing.

        -Halbrust

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        ------------------------------------
        Yahoo! Groups Links
        Individual Email | Traditional
        http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Tim Nalley
        Just ordered a copy of Culinaria Russia! Any ideas where a copy of R. Roberts hop paper could be acquired? I just built a hop yard for my mundane brewing and
        Message 3 of 16 , Mar 29, 2013
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          Just ordered a copy of Culinaria Russia! Any ideas where a copy of R. Roberts hop paper could be acquired? I just built a hop yard for my mundane brewing and would love to expand it in future days! Thanks!
          -dok


          From my Android phone on T-Mobile. The first nationwide 4G network.

          -------- Original message --------
          Subject: Re: [sig] Alcohol in Russia in the 10th and 11th century
          From: aldo <turanomar@...>
          To: sig@yahoogroups.com
          CC:

          One of my source for such topics which I may suggest is:

          CULINARIA RUSSIA, by Marion TRUTTER (edit.) Tandem Verlag GmbH 2006

          Some more:

          Food Culture in Russia and Central Asia, by Glenn R. Mack & Asele Surina,
          Westport Conn. 2005
          V. Pohliobkin - Nacional'nye kuhni nasih narodov, Moskva 2009

          As far as Humulus lupulus (hop) is concerned the sole study (complete and
          fully documented) is R. Kobert's thereupon (Dorpat Univ.). The first peoples
          to use hop to give a new taste to beer were the Finno-ugrians of the Upper
          Volga-Kama while this use firstly appeared in Western Europe roughly by the
          Barbarians epoch (AD VIII cent.). HUMULUS which was the Latin name for Hop
          comes from Tchuvash hemla, Finn. humala Hung. komlò and still today the
          European largest exporter of Hop for beer is the Republic of Tscuvasha not
          far from Moscow.
          Could it be of any use to u?

          -----Messaggio originale-----
          From: goldschp tds.net
          Sent: Friday, March 29, 2013 4:35 AM
          To: sig@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [sig] Alcohol in Russia in the 10th and 11th century

          Very interesting summary. Where is you finding information on food and
          drink? I know that others are interested.

          I'm a little surprised on that early date on hopped beer. I realize that
          it existed in the 11th century, but was it really that common? What's your
          source?

          Is "privo" a misspelling for "pivo" (the modern word for beer)?

          Thanks for sharing this. I'll probably be begging you for an article for
          Slovo as well. :)

          Paul

          On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 6:18 PM, Joseph Belcher <iegrappling@...> wrote:

          > **
          >
          > Per my research on alcohol in Russia in the 10th and 11th century:
          > · Kvas and mead were common drinks throughout the period
          > · Hopped beer was common in the 11th century
          > · Imported wine was drank, but it was a rarity
          > · Alcohol was taxed as early as the 11th century
          > · Med was the term for mead, as well as for honey
          > · Beer had many terms, and my sources do not overlap on terms
          > o Privo was the term for hopped beer (unsure if un-hopped beer had a
          > different name)
          > o Ol, oll, and olovina were hopped beers
          > o Siker is said to be a “virtual synonym” to ol, oll, and olovina (does
          > the word virtual possibly note that silker was un-hopped beer?)
          >
          > If anyone can confirm or refute any of my findings, I would greatly
          > appreciate it. I will continue my research, but guidance is always a great
          > thing.
          >
          > -Halbrust
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

          ------------------------------------

          Yahoo! Groups Links



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Joseph Belcher
          OF COURSE! ... From: Tim Nalley To: sig Sent: Fri, Mar 29, 2013 12:18 pm Subject: Re: [sig] Alcohol in Russia in the
          Message 4 of 16 , Mar 29, 2013
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            OF COURSE!



            -----Original Message-----
            From: Tim Nalley <mordakus@...>
            To: sig <sig@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Fri, Mar 29, 2013 12:18 pm
            Subject: Re: [sig] Alcohol in Russia in the 10th and 11th century




            Awesome! When you work it out and publish, can I try it out?
            'dok

            From my Android phone on T-Mobile. The first nationwide 4G network.

            -------- Original message --------
            Subject: Re: [sig] Alcohol in Russia in the 10th and 11th century
            From: Joseph Belcher <iegrappling@...>
            To: sig@yahoogroups.com
            CC:

            I am a brewer.
            This research is for a particular drink served by Grand Prince Vladiir to Dobrynya.

            -Halbrust

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Tim Nalley <mordakus@...>
            To: sig <sig@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Fri, Mar 29, 2013 11:37 am
            Subject: Re: [sig] Alcohol in Russia in the 10th and 11th century

            Halbrust-
            Are you also a brewer? Sometime this coming month and into this summer I was going to integrate some experimental one gallon test batches of unhopped beer into my normal brewing schedule! Maybe we could collaborate, like a brewing double blind? I was planning ales for ease but lack a bread shed for natural yeasting. I would love to aid you in your research, which is very cool, and pursue my own passion for brewing.
            'dok

            From my Android phone on T-Mobile. The first nationwide 4G network.

            -------- Original message --------
            Subject: Re: [sig] Alcohol in Russia in the 10th and 11th century
            From: Joseph Belcher <iegrappling@...>
            To: sig@yahoogroups.com
            CC:

            Thank you to EVERYONE who replied!!! I will take your info and your sources into consideration as I continue my research.

            The two main sources I have used so far are:
            · Christian, David. 'Living Water' : Vodka and Russian Society on the Eve of Emancipation: Vodka and Russian Society on the Eve of Emancipation. Oxford University Press, 1990
            · Smith, Robert EF and Christian, David. Bread and Salt: A Social and Economic History of Food and Drink in Rusia. Cambridge University Press, 1984

            -Halbrust

            -----Original Message-----
            From: goldschp tds.net <goldschp@...>
            To: sig <sig@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Thu, Mar 28, 2013 8:35 pm
            Subject: Re: [sig] Alcohol in Russia in the 10th and 11th century

            Very interesting summary. Where is you finding information on food and
            rink? I know that others are interested.
            I'm a little surprised on that early date on hopped beer. I realize that
            t existed in the 11th century, but was it really that common? What's your
            ource?
            Is "privo" a misspelling for "pivo" (the modern word for beer)?

            hanks for sharing this. I'll probably be begging you for an article for
            lovo as well. :)
            Paul

            n Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 6:18 PM, Joseph Belcher <iegrappling@...> wrote:
            > **

            Per my research on alcohol in Russia in the 10th and 11th century:
            � Kvas and mead were common drinks throughout the period
            � Hopped beer was common in the 11th century
            � Imported wine was drank, but it was a rarity
            � Alcohol was taxed as early as the 11th century
            � Med was the term for mead, as well as for honey
            � Beer had many terms, and my sources do not overlap on terms
            o Privo was the term for hopped beer (unsure if un-hopped beer had a
            different name)
            o Ol, oll, and olovina were hopped beers
            o Siker is said to be a �virtual synonym� to ol, oll, and olovina (does
            the word virtual possibly note that silker was un-hopped beer?)

            If anyone can confirm or refute any of my findings, I would greatly
            appreciate it. I will continue my research, but guidance is always a great
            thing.

            -Halbrust

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            ------------------------------------
            Yahoo! Groups Links
            Individual Email | Traditional
            http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Joseph Belcher
            You have me intrigued... Are you using herbs that grow naturally in Eastern Europe? -Halbrust ... From: Tim Nalley To: sig
            Message 5 of 16 , Mar 29, 2013
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              You have me intrigued...
              Are you using herbs that grow naturally in Eastern Europe?

              -Halbrust

              -----Original Message-----
              From: Tim Nalley <mordakus@...>
              To: sig <sig@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Fri, Mar 29, 2013 12:25 pm
              Subject: Re: [sig] Alcohol in Russia in the 10th and 11th century




              Btw, I'm doing small batch research next month using herbs as bittering, flavoring and aroma agents, no hops. Want my research and samples?
              'dok

              From my Android phone on T-Mobile. The first nationwide 4G network.

              -------- Original message --------
              Subject: Re: [sig] Alcohol in Russia in the 10th and 11th century
              From: Joseph Belcher <iegrappling@...>
              To: sig@yahoogroups.com
              CC:

              I am a brewer.
              This research is for a particular drink served by Grand Prince Vladiir to Dobrynya.

              -Halbrust

              -----Original Message-----
              From: Tim Nalley <mordakus@...>
              To: sig <sig@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Fri, Mar 29, 2013 11:37 am
              Subject: Re: [sig] Alcohol in Russia in the 10th and 11th century

              Halbrust-
              Are you also a brewer? Sometime this coming month and into this summer I was going to integrate some experimental one gallon test batches of unhopped beer into my normal brewing schedule! Maybe we could collaborate, like a brewing double blind? I was planning ales for ease but lack a bread shed for natural yeasting. I would love to aid you in your research, which is very cool, and pursue my own passion for brewing.
              'dok

              From my Android phone on T-Mobile. The first nationwide 4G network.

              -------- Original message --------
              Subject: Re: [sig] Alcohol in Russia in the 10th and 11th century
              From: Joseph Belcher <iegrappling@...>
              To: sig@yahoogroups.com
              CC:

              Thank you to EVERYONE who replied!!! I will take your info and your sources into consideration as I continue my research.

              The two main sources I have used so far are:
              · Christian, David. 'Living Water' : Vodka and Russian Society on the Eve of Emancipation: Vodka and Russian Society on the Eve of Emancipation. Oxford University Press, 1990
              · Smith, Robert EF and Christian, David. Bread and Salt: A Social and Economic History of Food and Drink in Rusia. Cambridge University Press, 1984

              -Halbrust

              -----Original Message-----
              From: goldschp tds.net <goldschp@...>
              To: sig <sig@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Thu, Mar 28, 2013 8:35 pm
              Subject: Re: [sig] Alcohol in Russia in the 10th and 11th century

              Very interesting summary. Where is you finding information on food and
              rink? I know that others are interested.
              I'm a little surprised on that early date on hopped beer. I realize that
              t existed in the 11th century, but was it really that common? What's your
              ource?
              Is "privo" a misspelling for "pivo" (the modern word for beer)?

              hanks for sharing this. I'll probably be begging you for an article for
              lovo as well. :)
              Paul

              n Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 6:18 PM, Joseph Belcher <iegrappling@...> wrote:
              > **

              Per my research on alcohol in Russia in the 10th and 11th century:
              � Kvas and mead were common drinks throughout the period
              � Hopped beer was common in the 11th century
              � Imported wine was drank, but it was a rarity
              � Alcohol was taxed as early as the 11th century
              � Med was the term for mead, as well as for honey
              � Beer had many terms, and my sources do not overlap on terms
              o Privo was the term for hopped beer (unsure if un-hopped beer had a
              different name)
              o Ol, oll, and olovina were hopped beers
              o Siker is said to be a �virtual synonym� to ol, oll, and olovina (does
              the word virtual possibly note that silker was un-hopped beer?)

              If anyone can confirm or refute any of my findings, I would greatly
              appreciate it. I will continue my research, but guidance is always a great
              thing.

              -Halbrust

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

              Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

              ------------------------------------
              Yahoo! Groups Links
              Individual Email | Traditional
              http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Tim Nalley
              Actually, thats what I wanted to chat about. My wife is an apothecaress in the society with a very respectable library of period english, german and arabic
              Message 6 of 16 , Mar 29, 2013
              • 0 Attachment
                Actually, thats what I wanted to chat about. My wife is an apothecaress in the society with a very respectable library of period english, german and arabic sources,  but thats the furthest east. I myself have a library of brewing book rapidly gaining respectability, including a great starter book on brewing herbs whose main value is steering me clear of tragedy, until my learning curve reaches equilibrium with my drive. 
                      Russian and E.E. herbs were to be my next google search and book purchase this weekend! Imagine my surprise!
                'dok


                From my Android phone on T-Mobile. The first nationwide 4G network.

                -------- Original message --------
                Subject: Re: [sig] Alcohol in Russia in the 10th and 11th century
                From: Joseph Belcher <iegrappling@...>
                To: sig@yahoogroups.com
                CC:


                You have me intrigued...
                Are you using herbs that grow naturally in Eastern Europe?

                -Halbrust

                -----Original Message-----
                From: Tim Nalley <mordakus@...>
                To: sig <sig@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Fri, Mar 29, 2013 12:25 pm
                Subject: Re: [sig] Alcohol in Russia in the 10th and 11th century

                Btw, I'm doing small batch research next month using herbs as bittering, flavoring and aroma agents, no hops. Want my research and samples?
                'dok

                From my Android phone on T-Mobile. The first nationwide 4G network.

                -------- Original message --------
                Subject: Re: [sig] Alcohol in Russia in the 10th and 11th century
                From: Joseph Belcher <iegrappling@...>
                To: sig@yahoogroups.com
                CC:

                I am a brewer.
                This research is for a particular drink served by Grand Prince Vladiir to Dobrynya.

                -Halbrust

                -----Original Message-----
                From: Tim Nalley <mordakus@...>
                To: sig <sig@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Fri, Mar 29, 2013 11:37 am
                Subject: Re: [sig] Alcohol in Russia in the 10th and 11th century

                Halbrust-
                Are you also a brewer? Sometime this coming month and into this summer I was going to integrate some experimental one gallon test batches of unhopped beer into my normal brewing schedule! Maybe we could collaborate, like a brewing double blind? I was planning ales for ease but lack a bread shed for natural yeasting. I would love to aid you in your research, which is very cool, and pursue my own passion for brewing.
                'dok

                From my Android phone on T-Mobile. The first nationwide 4G network.

                -------- Original message --------
                Subject: Re: [sig] Alcohol in Russia in the 10th and 11th century
                From: Joseph Belcher <iegrappling@...>
                To: sig@yahoogroups.com
                CC:

                Thank you to EVERYONE who replied!!! I will take your info and your sources into consideration as I continue my research.

                The two main sources I have used so far are:
                · Christian, David. 'Living Water' : Vodka and Russian Society on the Eve of Emancipation: Vodka and Russian Society on the Eve of Emancipation. Oxford University Press, 1990
                · Smith, Robert EF and Christian, David. Bread and Salt: A Social and Economic History of Food and Drink in Rusia. Cambridge University Press, 1984

                -Halbrust

                -----Original Message-----
                From: goldschp tds.net <goldschp@...>
                To: sig <sig@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Thu, Mar 28, 2013 8:35 pm
                Subject: Re: [sig] Alcohol in Russia in the 10th and 11th century

                Very interesting summary. Where is you finding information on food and
                rink? I know that others are interested.
                I'm a little surprised on that early date on hopped beer. I realize that
                t existed in the 11th century, but was it really that common? What's your
                ource?
                Is "privo" a misspelling for "pivo" (the modern word for beer)?

                hanks for sharing this. I'll probably be begging you for an article for
                lovo as well. :)
                Paul

                n Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 6:18 PM, Joseph Belcher <iegrappling@...> wrote:
                > **

                Per my research on alcohol in Russia in the 10th and 11th century:
                � Kvas and mead were common drinks throughout the period
                � Hopped beer was common in the 11th century
                � Imported wine was drank, but it was a rarity
                � Alcohol was taxed as early as the 11th century
                � Med was the term for mead, as well as for honey
                � Beer had many terms, and my sources do not overlap on terms
                o Privo was the term for hopped beer (unsure if un-hopped beer had a
                different name)
                o Ol, oll, and olovina were hopped beers
                o Siker is said to be a �virtual synonym� to ol, oll, and olovina (does
                the word virtual possibly note that silker was un-hopped beer?)

                If anyone can confirm or refute any of my findings, I would greatly
                appreciate it. I will continue my research, but guidance is always a great
                thing.

                -Halbrust

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                ------------------------------------
                Yahoo! Groups Links
                Individual Email | Traditional
                http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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