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Re: [sig] Re: Czech name help

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  • Mary Stoughton
    Thank-you for responding, Marya. I am willing to go with a Russian name...but what I am after is Czech. * Is it common to see Russian surnames in the Czech
    Message 1 of 10 , Sep 24 5:07 PM
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      Thank-you for responding, Marya.

      I am willing to go with a Russian name...but what I am after is Czech. * Is
      it common to see Russian surnames in the Czech Republic?*

      Secondly, Libuse was a Czech Princess (myth or real is a matter of
      opinion)...somehow I need to see Libuse or Libusa or Liboosa *being used
      amongst the common population* within 500 years (I am very glad for the
      new SENA rules!) of my surname.

      Am I correct in my assumption?
      Thank-you all for your time,
      Mary


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Michael FitzGeoffrey
      It s not a matter of the name being used by COMMON people so much as that it was used among actual humans (as opposed to legendary/mythical/fictional
      Message 2 of 10 , Sep 24 6:20 PM
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        It's not a matter of the name being used by COMMON people so much as that
        it was used among actual humans (as opposed to legendary/mythical/fictional
        characters).

        - *Michael*
        *
        **Given in loyal service by mine own hand and seal this 24 day of
        September, A.S. XLVII, I am
        *
        *Lord Michael FitzGeoffrey, GdS, OLM, **Midhaven Pursuivant*
        *
        *

        http://wiki.antir.sca.org/index.php?title=Michael_FitzGeoffrey
        http://www.michaelfitzgeoffrey.blogspot.com/


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Quokkaqueen
        Hi Libusa and everyone else! ... SENA is the abbreviation for the rules the SCA college of heralds use. The reason why I m obsessing over 300
        Message 3 of 10 , Sep 25 3:05 PM
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          Hi Libusa and everyone else!

          <<snip>>
          > > The closest dated form I can see, to Libusa is "Mach", in 1052. So possibly
          > > Machovicha? But that is still 382 years apart. SENA wants elements to be
          > > 300 years apart.
          <<snip>>

          SENA is the abbreviation for the rules the SCA college of heralds use. The reason why I'm obsessing over 300 years is because although <Libusa> shows up in a Russian source, it is referring to a semi-legendary Czech princess. So while you can combine Czech and Russian under SENA,there can only be 300 years difference between them.

          <<snip>>
          > > Are you combining the early Mach with -ovicha? Is that a common practice in
          > > the SCA?? I would rather go with a change in spelling, then a change in
          > > pronounciation. Machovicha is very close to Makovička..as the čka...is
          > > actually pronounced "ch-ka".
          <<snip>>

          As far as I am aware, Czech names are gender dependant. Makovic^ka isn't formed correctly for the modern language, at least. It probably should be Makovic^kova/, where the a/ is an a-acute. So you may need to change pronunciation anyway.
          The tricky thing, is that you either are going to need to find dated instances of both parts of the name in a Czech/Bohemian context, as well as figure out how to form the byname correctly.

          <<snip>>
          > > I could not find:
          > >
          > > *(Nikola Makovich Dragovich). 1454. [Mor 117] "* in Pauls Russian
          > > Dictionary.
          <<snip>>

          Under <Mak>, here: http://heraldry.sca.org/paul/ma.html

          Good luck!

          ffride
        • John Staeck
          In Czech and other languages throughout the region, the use of a diminutive is sometimes added as a form of personalization.  The KA ending is one such form
          Message 4 of 10 , Sep 25 6:11 PM
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            In Czech and other languages throughout the region, the use of a diminutive is sometimes added as a form of personalization.  The "KA" ending is one such form in Czech, as can be KO. An example would be Jiri (George) becoming Jirko, or a different Czech system changes Pavel to Paveli.   It is unclear if there is some form of diminutive at work over the years or not here, I do not pretend to be an expert.  It is something to watch out for, though.

            Pax - Janos/John  aka (to his grandparents) as Janci (Yan-chee) (which is one such diminutive in Hungarian)



            ________________________________
            From: Quokkaqueen <quokkaqueen@...>
            To: sig@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 5:05 PM
            Subject: [sig] Re: Czech name help


             
            Hi Libusa and everyone else!

            <<snip>>
            > > The closest dated form I can see, to Libusa is "Mach", in 1052. So possibly
            > > Machovicha? But that is still 382 years apart. SENA wants elements to be
            > > 300 years apart.
            <<snip>>

            SENA is the abbreviation for the rules the SCA college of heralds use. The reason why I'm obsessing over 300 years is because although <Libusa> shows up in a Russian source, it is referring to a semi-legendary Czech princess. So while you can combine Czech and Russian under SENA,there can only be 300 years difference between them.

            <<snip>>
            > > Are you combining the early Mach with -ovicha? Is that a common practice in
            > > the SCA?? I would rather go with a change in spelling, then a change in
            > > pronounciation. Machovicha is very close to Makovička..as the čka...is
            > > actually pronounced "ch-ka".
            <<snip>>

            As far as I am aware, Czech names are gender dependant. Makovic^ka isn't formed correctly for the modern language, at least. It probably should be Makovic^kova/, where the a/ is an a-acute. So you may need to change pronunciation anyway.
            The tricky thing, is that you either are going to need to find dated instances of both parts of the name in a Czech/Bohemian context, as well as figure out how to form the byname correctly.

            <<snip>>
            > > I could not find:
            > >
            > > *(Nikola Makovich Dragovich). 1454. [Mor 117] "* in Pauls Russian
            > > Dictionary.
            <<snip>>

            Under <Mak>, here: http://heraldry.sca.org/paul/ma.html

            Good luck!

            ffride




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Mary Stoughton
            I heard my Grandfather Americanized the pronounciation of Makovička. From Mauk-o-vichka to Mak-o-vicka. His friends called him Mak. There are so many
            Message 5 of 10 , Sep 26 11:07 AM
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              I heard my Grandfather Americanized the pronounciation of Makovička. From
              Mauk-o-vichka to Mak-o-vicka. His friends called him Mak. There are so
              many Makovickas in the Czech Republic, I dont think he changed the
              spelling.

              That aside, from what you are saying Janis, the root of my Grandfathers
              name is Makovi? Then the Ka is added as an endearment or familiarity?

              Libuše/Mary

              On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 6:11 PM, John Staeck <avarjanos@...> wrote:

              > **
              >
              >
              > In Czech and other languages throughout the region, the use of a
              > diminutive is sometimes added as a form of personalization. The "KA"
              > ending is one such form in Czech, as can be KO. An example would be Jiri
              > (George) becoming Jirko, or a different Czech system changes Pavel to
              > Paveli. It is unclear if there is some form of diminutive at work over
              > the years or not here, I do not pretend to be an expert. It is something
              > to watch out for, though.
              >
              > Pax - Janos/John aka (to his grandparents) as Janci (Yan-chee) (which is
              > one such diminutive in Hungarian)
              >
              > ________________________________
              > From: Quokkaqueen <quokkaqueen@...>
              > To: sig@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 5:05 PM
              > Subject: [sig] Re: Czech name help
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Hi Libusa and everyone else!
              >
              > <<snip>>
              > > > The closest dated form I can see, to Libusa is "Mach", in 1052. So
              > possibly
              > > > Machovicha? But that is still 382 years apart. SENA wants elements to
              > be
              > > > 300 years apart.
              > <<snip>>
              >
              > SENA is the abbreviation for the rules the SCA college of heralds use. The
              > reason why I'm obsessing over 300 years is because although <Libusa> shows
              > up in a Russian source, it is referring to a semi-legendary Czech princess.
              > So while you can combine Czech and Russian under SENA,there can only be 300
              > years difference between them.
              >
              > <<snip>>
              > > > Are you combining the early Mach with -ovicha? Is that a common
              > practice in
              > > > the SCA?? I would rather go with a change in spelling, then a change in
              > > > pronounciation. Machovicha is very close to Makovička..as the čka...is
              >
              > > > actually pronounced "ch-ka".
              > <<snip>>
              >
              > As far as I am aware, Czech names are gender dependant. Makovic^ka isn't
              > formed correctly for the modern language, at least. It probably should be
              > Makovic^kova/, where the a/ is an a-acute. So you may need to change
              > pronunciation anyway.
              > The tricky thing, is that you either are going to need to find dated
              > instances of both parts of the name in a Czech/Bohemian context, as well as
              > figure out how to form the byname correctly.
              >
              > <<snip>>
              > > > I could not find:
              > > >
              > > > *(Nikola Makovich Dragovich). 1454. [Mor 117] "* in Pauls Russian
              > > > Dictionary.
              > <<snip>>
              >
              > Under <Mak>, here: http://heraldry.sca.org/paul/ma.html
              >
              > Good luck!
              >
              > ffride
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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