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Re[4]: [sig] Need help with a name meaning

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  • Alexey Kiyaikin aka Posadnik
    ergm... I d read those recent studies. It looks like a bit of the same war of the theories, whether the Slavs derive from Sklav- orother a-word, or from the
    Message 1 of 4 , Sep 14, 2012
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      ergm... I'd read those recent studies. It looks like a bit of the same war of the theories, whether the Slavs derive from Sklav- orother a-word, or from the word Slovo.

      All in all, I've surfed the RuNet, there' no Zhidoslav, no Zhiteslav.
      There's a Zhiroslav, Novgorod Posadnik in 1170-71, 1171-72 and in 1175.
      And there's a Zhidiata (Zhiriata) in the second half of the 11 century ., - St. Lucas of the Orthodox Church(his days are 4/17 October and 10/23 February), the second Bishop of Novgorod, the first ethnic Russian to become a bishop in Old Rus.
      http://www.saints.ru/l/28okt.prestavlenie_svt.Luki_Novgorodskogo
      http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9B%D1%83%D0%BA%D0%B0_%D0%96%D0%B8%D0%B4%D1%8F%D1%82%D0%B0
      http://dic.academic.ru/dic.nsf/enc_biography/73774/%D0%9B%D1%83%D0%BA%D0%B0

      The dictionaries claim there was no Zhido-, only Zhidislav in Old Novgorod.



      Fri, 14 Sep 2012 12:40:29 +0200 от "aldo" <turanomar@...>:
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      >Dear Posadnik, u would be right if the name in question was ZHITOSLAV but, if I remeber well, it has been mentioned as ZHITESLAV. In the latter case ZHITO containing a deaf dental i.e. T cannot turn into a palatalized –TJE- which is instead possible with –D- into –TJE- as it is usual of Great Russian and therefore ZHIDO+SLAV may give such a ZHITESLAV (pronunciation ZHITIESLAV)
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      Moreover u interpret SLAV in the old (Polish-nationalistic) way as glory or glorious. Actually it appears in the recent studies that it was used appended to the first part of a personal name to indicate the assimilation of an allogenic person into the wider SLAV-ness. The first example in Russian is Olga’s son SVIATOSLAV where the components are SVIAT- (holy, the same as her mother OLGA/HELGA) plus –SLAV as said above.
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      Ciao
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      Aldo
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      From: Alexey Kiyaikin aka Posadnik
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      Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 12:13 PM
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      To: sig@yahoogroups.com
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      Subject: Re[2]: [sig] Need help with a name meaning
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      1. Zhyt- is not only living, but leaving means as well. Zhyto = wheat, жито. But Bread-Glorious would be Zhitoslav, afa I can rely on my bits and pieces of Old Russian.
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      2) Zh is the English way of conveying the ж sound. Z (actually, Z with a diacritic sign) is afair a Polish/ Czech variant of writing down the same sound. Just try a web dictionary translate the word knife (nozh) into several Slavic languages. Looks funny.
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      3)the root Zaits- means not а rabbit but a hare. Rabbit is Krolik.
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      4) no Jews with a T in the root. "Zhid" is just the calc of "Judah", while Zhit-... see (1)
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      5) Dimitry is the older variant, dating back to the Greek name Demetrius.
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      Hope that helps.
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      Thu, 13 Sep 2012 09:23:24 -0700 от Anya Stickney <mailto:anyas5%40gmail.com>:
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      >Here's my understanding from modern Russian...
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      Zhiteslav/Zyteslav consists of "Zhyt", which means to live, and "Slav"
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      which would mean good/happy. So I would understand Zhiteslav to mean
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      living good, "bon vivont", or something along those lines.
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      (Also, "Zhyt" is a modern slang for a person of Jewish decent. But I don't
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      know if this was the case in period.)
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      Zaitsev has the root "Zaits", which means rabbit.
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      Dmitrii and Dimitrii are the same name, and considering that in Russia one
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      person can go by many names (Dimitrii, Dmitrii, Dima, Mitya are all one
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      same name), I think that what you passed was the formal name. But you can
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      go by any of the alternatives, and be completely accurate. But I
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      understand wanting it to be spelled a certain way since in the US people
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      usually go by only one name.
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      As an asside, in Russian, I can go by Anna, Anya, Anechka, Anushka, An'ka,
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      Annya, and all of them valid.
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      Hope it helps,
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      Anya
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      On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 8:30 AM, Maryelizabeth <mailto:peterbenma%40yahoo.com> wrote:
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      > Greetings!
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      > At Pennsic, my son had his name submitted and it was not done exactly
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      > right. We are hoping to find the meaning of the surname submitted for him.
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      > The name in question is Zhiteslav. On the heraldry database it only gives
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      > a variation of the spelling: Zyteslav.
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      > He is a bit unhappy with Dmitrii being submitted as Dimitrii, but I think
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      > we can overlook that if the meaning to the surname is acceptable to him.
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      > Thank you for any help with this. I have been unable to get help from
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      > other heralds on this. The original name he wanted was Dmitrii Zaitsev,
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      > which in period would have been spelled Zaitsov - wires definitely got
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      > crossed somewhere when he tried to explain what he wanted.
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      > Apollonia
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      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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      ------------------------------------
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    • Maryelizabeth Hancock
      Thank you all for your help. The meaning I surmised from your answers was basically Dimitrii the happy Slav/Russian . This is very acceptable to Benjamin
      Message 2 of 4 , Sep 14, 2012
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        Thank you all for your help. The meaning I surmised from your answers was basically "Dimitrii the happy Slav/Russian". This is very acceptable to Benjamin which, as he is a teen, is truly a wonderful thing! Hopefully, he will soon join this list but for now, I keep reading and enjoying the help and the conversations here. There is so much in the Slavic history and the clothing is beautiful. Thank you again!


        Apollonia

         
        Maryelizabeth Hancock
         


        ________________________________
        From: aldo <turanomar@...>
        To: sig@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 6:40 AM
        Subject: Re: Re[2]: [sig] Need help with a name meaning


         
        Dear Posadnik, u would be right if the name in question was ZHITOSLAV but, if I remeber well, it has been mentioned as ZHITESLAV. In the latter case ZHITO containing a deaf dental i.e. T cannot turn into a palatalized –TJE- which is instead possible with –D- into –TJE- as it is usual of Great Russian and therefore ZHIDO+SLAV may give such a ZHITESLAV (pronunciation ZHITIESLAV)
        Moreover u interpret SLAV in the old (Polish-nationalistic) way as glory or glorious. Actually it appears in the recent studies that it was used appended to the first part of a personal name to indicate the assimilation of an allogenic person into the wider SLAV-ness. The first example in Russian is Olga’s son SVIATOSLAV where the components are SVIAT- (holy, the same as her mother OLGA/HELGA) plus –SLAV as said above.

        Ciao

        Aldo
        From: Alexey Kiyaikin aka Posadnik
        Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 12:13 PM
        To: sig@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re[2]: [sig] Need help with a name meaning

        1. Zhyt- is not only living, but leaving means as well. Zhyto = wheat, жито. But Bread-Glorious would be Zhitoslav, afa I can rely on my bits and pieces of Old Russian.
        2) Zh is the English way of conveying the ж sound. Z (actually, Z with a diacritic sign) is afair a Polish/ Czech variant of writing down the same sound. Just try a web dictionary translate the word knife (nozh) into several Slavic languages. Looks funny.
        3)the root Zaits- means not а rabbit but a hare. Rabbit is Krolik.
        4) no Jews with a T in the root. "Zhid" is just the calc of "Judah", while Zhit-... see (1)
        5) Dimitry is the older variant, dating back to the Greek name Demetrius.

        Hope that helps.

        Thu, 13 Sep 2012 09:23:24 -0700 от Anya Stickney <mailto:anyas5%40gmail.com>:
        >
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        >

        >Here's my understanding from modern Russian...
        >
        >
        Zhiteslav/Zyteslav consists of "Zhyt", which means to live, and "Slav"
        >
        which would mean good/happy. So I would understand Zhiteslav to mean
        >
        living good, "bon vivont", or something along those lines.
        >
        >
        (Also, "Zhyt" is a modern slang for a person of Jewish decent. But I don't
        >
        know if this was the case in period.)
        >
        >
        Zaitsev has the root "Zaits", which means rabbit.
        >
        >
        Dmitrii and Dimitrii are the same name, and considering that in Russia one
        >
        person can go by many names (Dimitrii, Dmitrii, Dima, Mitya are all one
        >
        same name), I think that what you passed was the formal name. But you can
        >
        go by any of the alternatives, and be completely accurate. But I
        >
        understand wanting it to be spelled a certain way since in the US people
        >
        usually go by only one name.
        >
        >
        As an asside, in Russian, I can go by Anna, Anya, Anechka, Anushka, An'ka,
        >
        Annya, and all of them valid.
        >
        >
        Hope it helps,
        >
        Anya
        >
        >
        >
        On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 8:30 AM, Maryelizabeth <mailto:peterbenma%40yahoo.com> wrote:
        >
        >
        > **
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Greetings!
        >
        >
        >
        > At Pennsic, my son had his name submitted and it was not done exactly
        >
        > right. We are hoping to find the meaning of the surname submitted for him.
        >
        >
        >
        > The name in question is Zhiteslav. On the heraldry database it only gives
        >
        > a variation of the spelling: Zyteslav.
        >
        >
        >
        > He is a bit unhappy with Dmitrii being submitted as Dimitrii, but I think
        >
        > we can overlook that if the meaning to the surname is acceptable to him.
        >
        >
        >
        > Thank you for any help with this. I have been unable to get help from
        >
        > other heralds on this. The original name he wanted was Dmitrii Zaitsev,
        >
        > which in period would have been spelled Zaitsov - wires definitely got
        >
        > crossed somewhere when he tried to explain what he wanted.
        >
        >
        >
        > Apollonia
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        >
        ------------------------------------
        >
        >
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        >
        >
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