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Re: Re[2]: [sig] Need help with a name meaning

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  • aldo
    Dear Posadnik, u would be right if the name in question was ZHITOSLAV but, if I remeber well, it has been mentioned as ZHITESLAV. In the latter case ZHITO
    Message 1 of 4 , Sep 14, 2012
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      Dear Posadnik, u would be right if the name in question was ZHITOSLAV but, if I remeber well, it has been mentioned as ZHITESLAV. In the latter case ZHITO containing a deaf dental i.e. T cannot turn into a palatalized –TJE- which is instead possible with –D- into –TJE- as it is usual of Great Russian and therefore ZHIDO+SLAV may give such a ZHITESLAV (pronunciation ZHITIESLAV)
      Moreover u interpret SLAV in the old (Polish-nationalistic) way as glory or glorious. Actually it appears in the recent studies that it was used appended to the first part of a personal name to indicate the assimilation of an allogenic person into the wider SLAV-ness. The first example in Russian is Olga’s son SVIATOSLAV where the components are SVIAT- (holy, the same as her mother OLGA/HELGA) plus –SLAV as said above.

      Ciao

      Aldo
      From: Alexey Kiyaikin aka Posadnik
      Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 12:13 PM
      To: sig@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re[2]: [sig] Need help with a name meaning


      1. Zhyt- is not only living, but leaving means as well. Zhyto = wheat, жито. But Bread-Glorious would be Zhitoslav, afa I can rely on my bits and pieces of Old Russian.
      2) Zh is the English way of conveying the ж sound. Z (actually, Z with a diacritic sign) is afair a Polish/ Czech variant of writing down the same sound. Just try a web dictionary translate the word knife (nozh) into several Slavic languages. Looks funny.
      3)the root Zaits- means not а rabbit but a hare. Rabbit is Krolik.
      4) no Jews with a T in the root. "Zhid" is just the calc of "Judah", while Zhit-... see (1)
      5) Dimitry is the older variant, dating back to the Greek name Demetrius.

      Hope that helps.

      Thu, 13 Sep 2012 09:23:24 -0700 от Anya Stickney <mailto:anyas5%40gmail.com>:
      >
      >
      >


      >



      >Here's my understanding from modern Russian...
      >
      >
      Zhiteslav/Zyteslav consists of "Zhyt", which means to live, and "Slav"
      >
      which would mean good/happy. So I would understand Zhiteslav to mean
      >
      living good, "bon vivont", or something along those lines.
      >
      >
      (Also, "Zhyt" is a modern slang for a person of Jewish decent. But I don't
      >
      know if this was the case in period.)
      >
      >
      Zaitsev has the root "Zaits", which means rabbit.
      >
      >
      Dmitrii and Dimitrii are the same name, and considering that in Russia one
      >
      person can go by many names (Dimitrii, Dmitrii, Dima, Mitya are all one
      >
      same name), I think that what you passed was the formal name. But you can
      >
      go by any of the alternatives, and be completely accurate. But I
      >
      understand wanting it to be spelled a certain way since in the US people
      >
      usually go by only one name.
      >
      >
      As an asside, in Russian, I can go by Anna, Anya, Anechka, Anushka, An'ka,
      >
      Annya, and all of them valid.
      >
      >
      Hope it helps,
      >
      Anya
      >
      >
      >
      On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 8:30 AM, Maryelizabeth <mailto:peterbenma%40yahoo.com> wrote:
      >
      >
      > **
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Greetings!
      >
      >
      >
      > At Pennsic, my son had his name submitted and it was not done exactly
      >
      > right. We are hoping to find the meaning of the surname submitted for him.
      >
      >
      >
      > The name in question is Zhiteslav. On the heraldry database it only gives
      >
      > a variation of the spelling: Zyteslav.
      >
      >
      >
      > He is a bit unhappy with Dmitrii being submitted as Dimitrii, but I think
      >
      > we can overlook that if the meaning to the surname is acceptable to him.
      >
      >
      >
      > Thank you for any help with this. I have been unable to get help from
      >
      > other heralds on this. The original name he wanted was Dmitrii Zaitsev,
      >
      > which in period would have been spelled Zaitsov - wires definitely got
      >
      > crossed somewhere when he tried to explain what he wanted.
      >
      >
      >
      > Apollonia
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
      >
      ------------------------------------
      >
      >
      Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sig/
      >
      >
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      >
      >
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      >
      (Yahoo! ID required)
      >
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      >
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      http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
      >







      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Alexey Kiyaikin aka Posadnik
      ergm... I d read those recent studies. It looks like a bit of the same war of the theories, whether the Slavs derive from Sklav- orother a-word, or from the
      Message 2 of 4 , Sep 14, 2012
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        ergm... I'd read those recent studies. It looks like a bit of the same war of the theories, whether the Slavs derive from Sklav- orother a-word, or from the word Slovo.

        All in all, I've surfed the RuNet, there' no Zhidoslav, no Zhiteslav.
        There's a Zhiroslav, Novgorod Posadnik in 1170-71, 1171-72 and in 1175.
        And there's a Zhidiata (Zhiriata) in the second half of the 11 century ., - St. Lucas of the Orthodox Church(his days are 4/17 October and 10/23 February), the second Bishop of Novgorod, the first ethnic Russian to become a bishop in Old Rus.
        http://www.saints.ru/l/28okt.prestavlenie_svt.Luki_Novgorodskogo
        http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9B%D1%83%D0%BA%D0%B0_%D0%96%D0%B8%D0%B4%D1%8F%D1%82%D0%B0
        http://dic.academic.ru/dic.nsf/enc_biography/73774/%D0%9B%D1%83%D0%BA%D0%B0

        The dictionaries claim there was no Zhido-, only Zhidislav in Old Novgorod.



        Fri, 14 Sep 2012 12:40:29 +0200 от "aldo" <turanomar@...>:
        >
        >
        >


        >




        >
        >
        >
        >Dear Posadnik, u would be right if the name in question was ZHITOSLAV but, if I remeber well, it has been mentioned as ZHITESLAV. In the latter case ZHITO containing a deaf dental i.e. T cannot turn into a palatalized –TJE- which is instead possible with –D- into –TJE- as it is usual of Great Russian and therefore ZHIDO+SLAV may give such a ZHITESLAV (pronunciation ZHITIESLAV)
        >
        Moreover u interpret SLAV in the old (Polish-nationalistic) way as glory or glorious. Actually it appears in the recent studies that it was used appended to the first part of a personal name to indicate the assimilation of an allogenic person into the wider SLAV-ness. The first example in Russian is Olga’s son SVIATOSLAV where the components are SVIAT- (holy, the same as her mother OLGA/HELGA) plus –SLAV as said above.
        >
        >
        Ciao
        >
        >
        Aldo
        >
        From: Alexey Kiyaikin aka Posadnik
        >
        Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 12:13 PM
        >
        To: sig@yahoogroups.com
        >
        Subject: Re[2]: [sig] Need help with a name meaning
        >
        >
        1. Zhyt- is not only living, but leaving means as well. Zhyto = wheat, жито. But Bread-Glorious would be Zhitoslav, afa I can rely on my bits and pieces of Old Russian.
        >
        2) Zh is the English way of conveying the ж sound. Z (actually, Z with a diacritic sign) is afair a Polish/ Czech variant of writing down the same sound. Just try a web dictionary translate the word knife (nozh) into several Slavic languages. Looks funny.
        >
        3)the root Zaits- means not а rabbit but a hare. Rabbit is Krolik.
        >
        4) no Jews with a T in the root. "Zhid" is just the calc of "Judah", while Zhit-... see (1)
        >
        5) Dimitry is the older variant, dating back to the Greek name Demetrius.
        >
        >
        Hope that helps.
        >
        >
        Thu, 13 Sep 2012 09:23:24 -0700 от Anya Stickney <mailto:anyas5%40gmail.com>:
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >Here's my understanding from modern Russian...
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        Zhiteslav/Zyteslav consists of "Zhyt", which means to live, and "Slav"
        >
        >
        >
        which would mean good/happy. So I would understand Zhiteslav to mean
        >
        >
        >
        living good, "bon vivont", or something along those lines.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        (Also, "Zhyt" is a modern slang for a person of Jewish decent. But I don't
        >
        >
        >
        know if this was the case in period.)
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        Zaitsev has the root "Zaits", which means rabbit.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        Dmitrii and Dimitrii are the same name, and considering that in Russia one
        >
        >
        >
        person can go by many names (Dimitrii, Dmitrii, Dima, Mitya are all one
        >
        >
        >
        same name), I think that what you passed was the formal name. But you can
        >
        >
        >
        go by any of the alternatives, and be completely accurate. But I
        >
        >
        >
        understand wanting it to be spelled a certain way since in the US people
        >
        >
        >
        usually go by only one name.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        As an asside, in Russian, I can go by Anna, Anya, Anechka, Anushka, An'ka,
        >
        >
        >
        Annya, and all of them valid.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        Hope it helps,
        >
        >
        >
        Anya
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 8:30 AM, Maryelizabeth <mailto:peterbenma%40yahoo.com> wrote:
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > **
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Greetings!
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > At Pennsic, my son had his name submitted and it was not done exactly
        >
        >
        >
        > right. We are hoping to find the meaning of the surname submitted for him.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > The name in question is Zhiteslav. On the heraldry database it only gives
        >
        >
        >
        > a variation of the spelling: Zyteslav.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > He is a bit unhappy with Dmitrii being submitted as Dimitrii, but I think
        >
        >
        >
        > we can overlook that if the meaning to the surname is acceptable to him.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Thank you for any help with this. I have been unable to get help from
        >
        >
        >
        > other heralds on this. The original name he wanted was Dmitrii Zaitsev,
        >
        >
        >
        > which in period would have been spelled Zaitsov - wires definitely got
        >
        >
        >
        > crossed somewhere when he tried to explain what he wanted.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Apollonia
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        ------------------------------------
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sig/
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        Individual Email | Traditional
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sig/join
        >
        >
        >
        (Yahoo! ID required)
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        mailto:sig-digest%40yahoogroups.com
        >
        >
        >
        mailto:sig-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        mailto:sig-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >








        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Maryelizabeth Hancock
        Thank you all for your help. The meaning I surmised from your answers was basically Dimitrii the happy Slav/Russian . This is very acceptable to Benjamin
        Message 3 of 4 , Sep 14, 2012
        • 0 Attachment
          Thank you all for your help. The meaning I surmised from your answers was basically "Dimitrii the happy Slav/Russian". This is very acceptable to Benjamin which, as he is a teen, is truly a wonderful thing! Hopefully, he will soon join this list but for now, I keep reading and enjoying the help and the conversations here. There is so much in the Slavic history and the clothing is beautiful. Thank you again!


          Apollonia

           
          Maryelizabeth Hancock
           


          ________________________________
          From: aldo <turanomar@...>
          To: sig@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 6:40 AM
          Subject: Re: Re[2]: [sig] Need help with a name meaning


           
          Dear Posadnik, u would be right if the name in question was ZHITOSLAV but, if I remeber well, it has been mentioned as ZHITESLAV. In the latter case ZHITO containing a deaf dental i.e. T cannot turn into a palatalized –TJE- which is instead possible with –D- into –TJE- as it is usual of Great Russian and therefore ZHIDO+SLAV may give such a ZHITESLAV (pronunciation ZHITIESLAV)
          Moreover u interpret SLAV in the old (Polish-nationalistic) way as glory or glorious. Actually it appears in the recent studies that it was used appended to the first part of a personal name to indicate the assimilation of an allogenic person into the wider SLAV-ness. The first example in Russian is Olga’s son SVIATOSLAV where the components are SVIAT- (holy, the same as her mother OLGA/HELGA) plus –SLAV as said above.

          Ciao

          Aldo
          From: Alexey Kiyaikin aka Posadnik
          Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 12:13 PM
          To: sig@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re[2]: [sig] Need help with a name meaning

          1. Zhyt- is not only living, but leaving means as well. Zhyto = wheat, жито. But Bread-Glorious would be Zhitoslav, afa I can rely on my bits and pieces of Old Russian.
          2) Zh is the English way of conveying the ж sound. Z (actually, Z with a diacritic sign) is afair a Polish/ Czech variant of writing down the same sound. Just try a web dictionary translate the word knife (nozh) into several Slavic languages. Looks funny.
          3)the root Zaits- means not а rabbit but a hare. Rabbit is Krolik.
          4) no Jews with a T in the root. "Zhid" is just the calc of "Judah", while Zhit-... see (1)
          5) Dimitry is the older variant, dating back to the Greek name Demetrius.

          Hope that helps.

          Thu, 13 Sep 2012 09:23:24 -0700 от Anya Stickney <mailto:anyas5%40gmail.com>:
          >
          >
          >

          >

          >Here's my understanding from modern Russian...
          >
          >
          Zhiteslav/Zyteslav consists of "Zhyt", which means to live, and "Slav"
          >
          which would mean good/happy. So I would understand Zhiteslav to mean
          >
          living good, "bon vivont", or something along those lines.
          >
          >
          (Also, "Zhyt" is a modern slang for a person of Jewish decent. But I don't
          >
          know if this was the case in period.)
          >
          >
          Zaitsev has the root "Zaits", which means rabbit.
          >
          >
          Dmitrii and Dimitrii are the same name, and considering that in Russia one
          >
          person can go by many names (Dimitrii, Dmitrii, Dima, Mitya are all one
          >
          same name), I think that what you passed was the formal name. But you can
          >
          go by any of the alternatives, and be completely accurate. But I
          >
          understand wanting it to be spelled a certain way since in the US people
          >
          usually go by only one name.
          >
          >
          As an asside, in Russian, I can go by Anna, Anya, Anechka, Anushka, An'ka,
          >
          Annya, and all of them valid.
          >
          >
          Hope it helps,
          >
          Anya
          >
          >
          >
          On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 8:30 AM, Maryelizabeth <mailto:peterbenma%40yahoo.com> wrote:
          >
          >
          > **
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Greetings!
          >
          >
          >
          > At Pennsic, my son had his name submitted and it was not done exactly
          >
          > right. We are hoping to find the meaning of the surname submitted for him.
          >
          >
          >
          > The name in question is Zhiteslav. On the heraldry database it only gives
          >
          > a variation of the spelling: Zyteslav.
          >
          >
          >
          > He is a bit unhappy with Dmitrii being submitted as Dimitrii, but I think
          >
          > we can overlook that if the meaning to the surname is acceptable to him.
          >
          >
          >
          > Thank you for any help with this. I have been unable to get help from
          >
          > other heralds on this. The original name he wanted was Dmitrii Zaitsev,
          >
          > which in period would have been spelled Zaitsov - wires definitely got
          >
          > crossed somewhere when he tried to explain what he wanted.
          >
          >
          >
          > Apollonia
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          >
          ------------------------------------
          >
          >
          Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sig/
          >
          >
          Individual Email | Traditional
          >
          >
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sig/join
          >
          (Yahoo! ID required)
          >
          >
          mailto:sig-digest%40yahoogroups.com
          >
          mailto:sig-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com
          >
          >
          mailto:sig-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com
          >
          >
          http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >

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