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Re: [sig] Re: Russian bows

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  • Ladie Lada
    That totally makes sense. A friend has a Mongolian bow and shoots at our practice so I have observed exactly what you describe. Also I read somewhere that the
    Message 1 of 13 , Sep 12, 2012
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      That totally makes sense. A friend has a Mongolian bow and shoots at our practice so I have observed exactly what you describe.

      Also I read somewhere that the Russian draw was with your index finger on/along the arrow and the muddle to little drawing the string underneath. I can only see that working if u r shooting from the right side if the bow if u r right handed and left side if left handed.
      That would also help stabilize the arrow by having a finger along it.
      I will find the source and post tonight or tomorrow.

      Lada

      Sent from my iPhone

      On Sep 12, 2012, at 4:59 PM, T Duran <sazabhadri@...> wrote:

      > > You can shoot a mongolian "standing style" (so if you're holding the bow
      > > with your left and releasing the arrow with your right, you arrow is perched
      > > on your left hand) or traditional horse mounted style with a thumbring, in
      > > which the arrow is perched on the LEFT side of the bow. That takes a lot of
      > > getting used to, and most archers in the SCA don't do it because it's so
      > > wonky.
      >
      > Some additional observations (some of which probably won't make sense
      > just to read it without trying it yourself) :
      >
      > If you are a right-handed archer (gripping the bow in your left hand)
      > shooting with a western three-finger draw, you'll have the arrow
      > resting on your left hand to the left of the bow. This is in part
      > because as you release, the string rolls slightly off the pads of your
      > right fingers, which has the effect of pressing the arrow shaft
      > slightly against the bow as it leaves the string. (if you shot off the
      > right of the bow, the torque as you release would send the arrow
      > whanging off to the right)
      >
      > If you are a right-handed archer using a thumb draw, that slight twist
      > of the string is reversed (the string is rolling off your thumb
      > instead). The arrow must therefore rest on your left hand to the
      > RIGHT of the bow, to counteract the twist (although, the twist is much
      > much less with the string released from a smooth ring).
      >
      > The two big advantages (we found) to shooting off the right side of the bow are:
      >
      > 1) It's much faster -- you don't have to thread the arrow through the
      > arc of the bow - you just slap it onto the side, draw, and release in
      > one smooth motion
      >
      > 2) You can hold the arrow in position with the fingers of the hand
      > that's gripping the bow, leaving your string hand free to do whatever
      >
      > Issues we've had are as Patches describes: if you're switching from
      > western draw to thumb draw, you have to unlearn a certain amount of
      > body memory -- your aim point and your draw point will both need to
      > adjust. In the miniatures, draw point is somewhere around your
      > clavicle, but the arrows I'm currently shooting with aren't long
      > enough for that.
      >
      > I've made things triply hard for myself: I'm trying to shoot without
      > a knocking bead, and I'm experimenting with the Chinese barrel-shaped
      > thumb ring, which introduces a whole additional set of
      > complications...
      >
      > The regular Indo-Persian style ring is actually pretty sweet, though,
      > once you get used to it.
      >
      > Kazimira
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Tim Nalley
      I shoot off my hand too. Like an english longbow, the horsebow has no arrow rest or shelf so you shoou around the handle! Resultr in the arrow flexing more
      Message 2 of 13 , Sep 13, 2012
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        I shoot off my hand too. Like an english longbow, the horsebow has no arrow rest or shelf so you shoou "around" the handle! Resultr in the arrow flexing more than normal, or the tail waggle I described! Ziggy has my Grozier Tatar short bow, so he will have a very current eval. I have thd Kassai Raven and it was worth EVERY penny Î paid!
        'dok





        ------------------------------
        On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 10:11 PM EDT Ladie Lada wrote:

        >I posted this question to FB as well. The best advice seems a Magyar bow.
        >One person specifically recommends a kassai bow raven model, that he shoots.
        >Looks like they all shoot off hand.
        >
        >Lada
        >
        >Sent from my iPhone
        >
        >On Sep 11, 2012, at 9:30 PM, Laura Munn <arathreel@...> wrote:
        >
        >> I shoot off my glove. They normally do not come with rests.
        >>
        >> -Katrusha
        >>
        >> On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 5:37 PM, Sfandra <seonaid13@...> wrote:
        >>
        >> **
        >>
        >>
        >> I will probably need a new bow by next Pennsic. Tell me about using the
        >> horsebow: do you have an arrow rest or do you use a shooting glove?
        >>
        >> --Sfandra
        >>
        >> ******************
        >> Boiarynia Sfandra Dmitrieva Chernigova
        >> O.L., O.M., K.O.E., Haus VDK, East Kingdom
        >> http://sfandra.webs.com
        >> Never 'pearl' your butt.
        >> ******************
        >>
        >>
        >> ________________________________
        >> From: Laura Munn <arathreel@...>
        >> To: sig@yahoogroups.com
        >> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 9:53 AM
        >> Subject: Re: [sig] Re: Russian bows
        >>
        >>
        >> I, as well, use a Mongolian horse bow. There are samples of that style bow
        >> in period. And oh, they are a dream to shoot.
        >>
        >> -Katrusha
        >>
        >> On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 9:12 AM, Tatiana Golter <
        >> littlegreensardine@...> wrote:
        >>
        >>> **
        >>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>> My daughter uses a mongolian horse bow. The earlier period would be, I
        >>> believe, a longbow.
        >>> Hope this helps,
        >>>
        >>> Tatiana
        >>>
        >>>
        >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>
        >> --
        >> My SCA work: http://katrusha.blogspot.com/
        >>
        >> My artwork: http://arathreel.deviantart.com/
        >>
        >> My baked goods:
        >> http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=251805&id=510143252&l=8fcf80877f
        >>
        >> Laura Munn AKA Katrusha the Skomorokh
        >> Artist
        >> Writer
        >> Baker
        >>
        >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >>
        >> ------------------------------------
        >>
        >> Yahoo! Groups Links
        >>
        >>
        >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> --
        >> My SCA work: http://katrusha.blogspot.com/
        >>
        >> My artwork: http://arathreel.deviantart.com/
        >>
        >> My baked goods:
        >> http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=251805&id=510143252&l=8fcf80877f
        >>
        >> Laura Munn AKA Katrusha the Skomorokh
        >> Artist
        >> Writer
        >> Baker
        >>
        >>
        >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> ------------------------------------
        >>
        >> Yahoo! Groups Links
        >>
        >>
        >>
      • T Duran
        ... Yes ! It s important to shoot arrows with the correct spine -- I ve seen too-light arrows explode coming out of the bow due to not being able to
        Message 3 of 13 , Sep 13, 2012
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          On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 5:59 AM, Tim Nalley <mordakus@...> wrote:
          >
          > I shoot off my hand too. Like an english longbow, the horsebow has no arrow
          > rest or shelf so you shoou "around" the handle! Resultr in the arrow flexing
          > more than normal, or the tail waggle I described!

          Yes ! It's important to shoot arrows with the correct "spine" -- I've
          seen too-light arrows explode coming out of the bow due to not being
          able to withstand that flex. I also hadn't realized before how the
          weight/spine of the arrow effects your aim point (see
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archer%27s_paradox for a decent
          explanation). Less of an issue with lighter poundage bows, but a good
          reason not to mix/borrow arrows if you can avoid it -- although I
          suppose a skilled archer would be able to adjust for the weight of the
          arrow, same as adjusting for wind speed and direction... :^)

          Kazimira
        • captain sandusky
          I have been meaning to post for a while on this topic as it is one very dear to me.  There are several styles used by the people of Russia one thing that
          Message 4 of 13 , Sep 14, 2012
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            I have been meaning to post for a while on this topic as it is one very dear to me.  There are several styles used by the people of "Russia" one thing that they all have in common is they were mostly of Asiatic influence.  The Russians like the Poles, Turks, and Tatars used the bow well into the 17th Century. 
             
            The bows used by the Kipchaks (Cumans) as evidence by the Mosheveya Balka bow found in the Caucasus was a non contact recurve bow very typical of the steppe tribes of what is now none as Russia.  The Mongolian bow we know today is not the Mongolian bow of Genghis Khan but a cross between the Manchu bow what and Tibetan bows.  The original Mongol bow is believed to be more like a non contact recurve that evolved into the Crimean Tatar bows.  Here is a good link for bows found in Russian Museums: http://atarn.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1256&highlight=russian
             
            As far as shooting I shoot several different Asiatic recurves including a Magyar Hornbow made by Grozer.  A great bow is the Kassai Panther very smooth, and fast the unstrung shape is also very true to the Asian hornbows.  I shoot off the hand with a thumb ring.  When this technique is perfected the fish tailing of the arrow due to the paradox is negated.  One thing about these bows is that they really shine when drawn past 28" so even if you shoot with fingers I would recommend drawing the bow to the ear to get the siyahs (static tips) working.

            --- On Thu, 9/13/12, T Duran <sazabhadri@...> wrote:


            From: T Duran <sazabhadri@...>
            Subject: Re: [sig] Re: Russian bows
            To: sig@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Thursday, September 13, 2012, 4:45 PM



             



            On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 5:59 AM, Tim Nalley <mordakus@...> wrote:
            >
            > I shoot off my hand too. Like an english longbow, the horsebow has no arrow
            > rest or shelf so you shoou "around" the handle! Resultr in the arrow flexing
            > more than normal, or the tail waggle I described!

            Yes ! It's important to shoot arrows with the correct "spine" -- I've
            seen too-light arrows explode coming out of the bow due to not being
            able to withstand that flex. I also hadn't realized before how the
            weight/spine of the arrow effects your aim point (see
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archer%27s_paradox for a decent
            explanation). Less of an issue with lighter poundage bows, but a good
            reason not to mix/borrow arrows if you can avoid it -- although I
            suppose a skilled archer would be able to adjust for the weight of the
            arrow, same as adjusting for wind speed and direction... :^)

            Kazimira







            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Sfandra
            Hi, So this is kinda OT, but I figured what the hey. I just watched a movie called First Squad .  It s a feature Anime, the first ever made in Russia.  It s
            Message 5 of 13 , Sep 22, 2012
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              Hi,
              So this is kinda OT, but I figured what the hey.
              I just watched a movie called 'First Squad'.  It's a feature Anime, the first ever made in Russia.  It's set in WWII but the reason I thought I'd give it a shout out here, is that the plot deals with Nazi occultists resurrecting the Teutonic Knights, and so Russia must come up with it's own occult warriors to essentially re-fight the Battle of the Ice at Lake Peipus.  Only one allusion to Alexander Nevsky, but still, it was fun to know the history behind the plot.
               
              Cheers,
              Sfandra Dmitrieva

              ******************
              Boiarynia Sfandra Dmitrieva Chernigova
              O.L., O.M., K.O.E., Haus VDK, East Kingdom
              http://sfandra.webs.com
              Never 'pearl' your butt.
              ******************

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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