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Sorting out Polish headgear

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  • maudeleyn@pobox.com
    So I m hoping to make this outfit before mid-September.
    Message 1 of 7 , Jul 29 2:12 PM
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      So I'm hoping to make this outfit before mid-September.

      http://www.artchive.com/web_gallery/L/Lucas-The-Younger-Cranach/Barbara-Radziwill-(1520-51)-c.1553-56.html

      I'm trying to sort through the pieces. I think I get the cap on top, but below, how many pieces am I looking at? What are the shapes? Are these the podwika and the bramka? I'm having trouble understanding where one stops and the other begins.

      I realize I'm probably asking at the wrong time as everyone is off to Pennsic, but I probably won't get started for a week or two because I am about to have a baby at any minute!

      Thanks,

      Maudeleyn
    • Kira Baranova
      I have no thing to offer, but WOW! That is incredibly gorgeous. And congratulations on the baby. :-) Kira Baranova a newcomer to the group. :-) ...
      Message 2 of 7 , Jul 29 3:15 PM
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        I have no thing to offer, but WOW! That is incredibly gorgeous.

        And congratulations on the baby. :-)

        Kira Baranova
        a newcomer to the group. :-)

        On Sun, Jul 29, 2012 at 2:12 PM, <maudeleyn@...> wrote:

        > **
        >
        >
        > So I'm hoping to make this outfit before mid-September.
        >
        >
        > http://www.artchive.com/web_gallery/L/Lucas-The-Younger-Cranach/Barbara-Radziwill-
        > (1520-51)-c.1553-56.html
        >
        > I'm trying to sort through the pieces. I think I get the cap on top, but
        > below, how many pieces am I looking at? What are the shapes? Are these the
        > podwika and the bramka? I'm having trouble understanding where one stops
        > and the other begins.
        >
        > I realize I'm probably asking at the wrong time as everyone is off to
        > Pennsic, but I probably won't get started for a week or two because I am
        > about to have a baby at any minute!
        >
        > Thanks,
        >
        > Maudeleyn
        >
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Catherine Olanich Raymond
        ... http://www.artchive.com/web_gallery/L/Lucas-The-Younger-Cranach/Barbara-Radziwill-(1520-51)-c.1553-56.html ... but below, how many pieces am I looking at?
        Message 3 of 7 , Jul 29 3:34 PM
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          On 07/29/2012 05:12 PM, maudeleyn@... wrote:
          > So I'm hoping to make this outfit before mid-September.
          >
          >
          http://www.artchive.com/web_gallery/L/Lucas-The-Younger-Cranach/Barbara-Radziwill-(1520-51)-c.1553-56.html
          >
          > I'm trying to sort through the pieces. I think I get the cap on top,
          but below, how many pieces am I looking at? What are the shapes? Are
          these the podwika and the bramka? I'm having trouble understanding where
          one stops and the other begins.
          >
          > I realize I'm probably asking at the wrong time as everyone is off
          > toPennsic, but I probably won't get started for a week or two because I am
          > about to have a baby at any minute!

          I don't know enough about period Polish costume even to know what the
          podwika and the bramka are, but here's what I think I see going on in
          the portrait (in case that inspires you):

          It looks to me as though she is wearing a white cloth cap of some kind,
          under a jeweled headwrap (part of it covers her ears, and another part
          of it covers the top of her head). I suppose the jeweled part could be
          a separate hood and cap, but the "cap" like part on top looks too floppy
          to be a separate cap. I think that the part around her neck is a
          separate collar, holding the wrap in place, and one end of the jeweled
          headwrap is brought over the top of her head and tucked in at the side.
          Then, a velvet flat cap, made like the velvet flat caps men wore in
          period but with a much shorter brim, is placed on top.


          --
          Cathy Raymond
          cathy@...
          (610) 805-9542

          "Remember that time is money."
          --Benjamin Franklin
        • Patty
          I don t know the Polish terms because I tend to look at things from the Lithuanian point of view. :-) But I too have been looking at this image and I pretty
          Message 4 of 7 , Jul 29 5:12 PM
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            I don't know the Polish terms because I tend to look at things from the Lithuanian point of view. :-) But I too have been looking at this image and I pretty much agree with Cathy's assessment.

            I have no idea how that vaguely Elizabethan-style velvet cap is staying on her head. Quite honestly, she looks miserable under all that jeweled finery!

            Best wishes to you and your new little one, and I also wish you the best of luck in trying to recreate this historic gown. I would love to read about your progress, but I think you're going to be very busy!

            Regards,
            Patricia of Trakai

            P.S. I just Googled "podwika bramka" and got this Slovo article by Master Zygmunt: http://www.goldschp.net/SIG/slovo/news41.html.



            -----Original Message-----
            From: Catherine Olanich Raymond <cathy@...>
            To: sig <sig@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Sun, Jul 29, 2012 6:34 pm
            Subject: Re: [sig] Sorting out Polish headgear


            On 07/29/2012 05:12 PM, maudeleyn@... wrote:
            > So I'm hoping to make this outfit before mid-September.
            >
            >
            http://www.artchive.com/web_gallery/L/Lucas-The-Younger-Cranach/Barbara-Radziwill-(1520-51)-c.1553-56.html
            >
            > I'm trying to sort through the pieces. I think I get the cap on top,
            but below, how many pieces am I looking at? What are the shapes? Are
            these the podwika and the bramka? I'm having trouble understanding where
            one stops and the other begins.
            >
            > I realize I'm probably asking at the wrong time as everyone is off
            > toPennsic, but I probably won't get started for a week or two because I am
            > about to have a baby at any minute!

            I don't know enough about period Polish costume even to know what the
            podwika and the bramka are, but here's what I think I see going on in
            the portrait (in case that inspires you):

            It looks to me as though she is wearing a white cloth cap of some kind,
            under a jeweled headwrap (part of it covers her ears, and another part
            of it covers the top of her head). I suppose the jeweled part could be
            a separate hood and cap, but the "cap" like part on top looks too floppy
            to be a separate cap. I think that the part around her neck is a
            separate collar, holding the wrap in place, and one end of the jeweled
            headwrap is brought over the top of her head and tucked in at the side.
            Then, a velvet flat cap, made like the velvet flat caps men wore in
            period but with a much shorter brim, is placed on top.


            --
            Cathy Raymond
            cathy@...
            (610) 805-9542

            "Remember that time is money."
            --Benjamin Franklin


            ------------------------------------

            Yahoo! Groups Links







            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • kevin purtrell
            Can you re-post the link? For me it is broken.   Kevin Ambrozijwski ... From: maudeleyn@pobox.com Subject: [sig] Sorting out Polish
            Message 5 of 7 , Jul 30 6:40 AM
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              Can you re-post the link?
              For me it is broken.
               
              Kevin Ambrozijwski

              --- On Sun, 7/29/12, maudeleyn@... <maudeleyn@...> wrote:


              From: maudeleyn@... <maudeleyn@...>
              Subject: [sig] Sorting out Polish headgear
              To: sig@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Sunday, July 29, 2012, 4:12 PM



               



              So I'm hoping to make this outfit before mid-September.

              http://www.artchive.com/web_gallery/L/Lucas-The-Younger-Cranach/Barbara-Radziwill-(1520-51)-c.1553-56.html

              I'm trying to sort through the pieces. I think I get the cap on top, but below, how many pieces am I looking at? What are the shapes? Are these the podwika and the bramka? I'm having trouble understanding where one stops and the other begins.

              I realize I'm probably asking at the wrong time as everyone is off to Pennsic, but I probably won't get started for a week or two because I am about to have a baby at any minute!

              Thanks,

              Maudeleyn








              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • maudeleyn@pobox.com
              Here s the link again- although you might have to cut and paste in the browser:
              Message 6 of 7 , Jul 30 7:20 AM
              • 0 Attachment
                Here's the link again- although you might have to cut and paste in the browser:

                http://www.artchive.com/web_gallery/L/Lucas-The-Younger-Cranach/Barbara-Radziwill-(1520-51)-c.1553-56.html

                Thanks for the thoughts so far- and actually, the only reason I know any of the terms is due to Master Zygmunt. Normally, I stick to 14th c. England and France, so I'm doing a little travelling for this outfit!

                I think I'll spend some time draping fabric around my head this afternoon and see where it gets me.


                Maudeleyn




                --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, kevin purtrell <krpurtell@...> wrote:
                >
                > Can you re-post the link?
                > For me it is broken.
                >  
                > Kevin Ambrozijwski
                >
                > --- On Sun, 7/29/12, maudeleyn@... <maudeleyn@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                > From: maudeleyn@... <maudeleyn@...>
                > Subject: [sig] Sorting out Polish headgear
                > To: sig@yahoogroups.com
                > Date: Sunday, July 29, 2012, 4:12 PM
                >
                >
                >
                >  
                >
                >
                >
                > So I'm hoping to make this outfit before mid-September.
                >
                > http://www.artchive.com/web_gallery/L/Lucas-The-Younger-Cranach/Barbara-Radziwill-(1520-51)-c.1553-56.html
                >
                > I'm trying to sort through the pieces. I think I get the cap on top, but below, how many pieces am I looking at? What are the shapes? Are these the podwika and the bramka? I'm having trouble understanding where one stops and the other begins.
                >
                > I realize I'm probably asking at the wrong time as everyone is off to Pennsic, but I probably won't get started for a week or two because I am about to have a baby at any minute!
                >
                > Thanks,
                >
                > Maudeleyn
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
              • S.P Maiorca
                ... hi, here is a tinyurl.com version *http://tinyurl.com/bqaryy5 more folks should use that * [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                Message 7 of 7 , Jul 30 7:23 AM
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                  On 7/30/2012 6:40 AM, kevin purtrell wrote:
                  >
                  > Can you re-post the link?
                  > For me it is broken.
                  >
                  > Kevin Ambrozijwski
                  >
                  > --- On Sun, 7/29/12, maudeleyn@...
                  > <mailto:maudeleyn%40pobox.com> <maudeleyn@...
                  > <mailto:maudeleyn%40pobox.com>> wrote:
                  >
                  > From: maudeleyn@... <mailto:maudeleyn%40pobox.com>
                  > <maudeleyn@... <mailto:maudeleyn%40pobox.com>>
                  > Subject: [sig] Sorting out Polish headgear
                  > To: sig@yahoogroups.com <mailto:sig%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > Date: Sunday, July 29, 2012, 4:12 PM
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > So I'm hoping to make this outfit before mid-September.
                  >
                  > http://www.artchive.com/web_gallery/L/Lucas-The-Younger-Cranach/Barbara-Radziwill-(1520-51)-c.1553-56.html
                  >
                  > I'm trying to sort through the pieces. I think I get the cap on top,
                  > but below, how many pieces am I looking at? What are the shapes? Are
                  > these the podwika and the bramka? I'm having trouble understanding
                  > where one stops and the other begins.
                  >
                  > I realize I'm probably asking at the wrong time as everyone is off to
                  > Pennsic, but I probably won't get started for a week or two because I
                  > am about to have a baby at any minute!
                  >
                  > Thanks,
                  >
                  > Maudeleyn
                  >
                  hi,
                  here is a tinyurl.com version *http://tinyurl.com/bqaryy5
                  more folks should use that
                  *


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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