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Rus maiden headdress help

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  • princesstinkerbell1972
    Having searched the messages, I know this was discussed long ago, but I m bringing it up again. My persona is 12th century Rus, Poliane tribe from Kiev. I
    Message 1 of 8 , Jun 19, 2012
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      Having searched the messages, I know this was discussed long ago, but I'm bringing it up again.

      My persona is 12th century Rus, Poliane tribe from Kiev. I would like to make a maiden's headdress that is fancier than the simple gold ribbon. I would like to attempt a fabric-covered rigid base type of headdress, but the deeper I dug into the wealth of research available from Sofya la Rus' website, the more overwhelmed I became. I got lost in all the names and subtypes of headdresses and their descriptions, and then I lost track of the dates for those things. A koruna is out of period for me, I think. Other than that, I'm lost.

      Chime in, please, and tell me what would be a proper fancy maiden's headdress for 12th century Rus. Links to images would be helpful as well.

      Thanks in advance,
      Elena
    • Sfandra
      My read of your situation is that the koruna would be appropriate.  So long as it doesn t cover the top of your head or your hanging hair/braid -- for a
      Message 2 of 8 , Jun 19, 2012
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        My read of your situation is that the koruna would be appropriate.  So long as it doesn't cover the top of your head or your hanging hair/braid -- for a maiden's headdress -- you could make the FRONT part, known as the ochel'e, as fancy as you like.  You could make it tall, sloping to the back, crenelated or not, embroidered, with metal decorations, etc.  Koruna is just a fancier venchik.  
         
        Pictures are obviously impossible, but i'd say take a look at these:  http://www.rusclothing.com/traditional-russian/headdress/%c2%a0 Imagine each closed in the back with a big ribbon bow.  Replace the inexpensive trim decorations with more time consuming embroidery, with metal plaques, pearls, and maybe inexpensive gems (only wealthy married women could afford serious gems).   
         
        Also, for a maiden there's a bit of headdress that I NEVER see anyone in the SCA do... it's that triangular pendant worn on the end of the braid.  It was made of embroidered silk over a leather base, and I'm totally blanking on the term right now (2 glasses of wine and 2 of Bailey's Mudslide will do that to me) but it's uniformly charming....
         
        -- Sfandra Dmitrieva
        -- who is 'medicating' her severe dermatitis w/ wine & Mudslides this evening

        ******************
        Boiarynia Sfandra Dmitrieva Chernigova
        O.L., O.M., K.O.E., Haus VDK, East Kingdom
        http://sfandra.webs.com
        Never 'pearl' your butt.
        ******************


        ________________________________
        From: princesstinkerbell1972 <meyers_t@...>
        To: sig@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 7:50 PM
        Subject: [sig] Rus maiden headdress help

        Having searched the messages, I know this was discussed long ago, but I'm bringing it up again.

        My persona is 12th century Rus, Poliane tribe from Kiev. I would like to make a maiden's headdress that is fancier than the simple gold ribbon. I would like to attempt a fabric-covered rigid base type of headdress, but the deeper I dug into the wealth of research available from Sofya la Rus' website, the more overwhelmed I became. I got lost in all the names and subtypes of headdresses and their descriptions, and then I lost track of the dates for those things. A koruna is out of period for me, I think. Other than that, I'm lost.

        Chime in, please, and tell me what would be a proper fancy maiden's headdress for 12th century Rus. Links to images would be helpful as well.

        Thanks in advance,
        Elena 



        ------------------------------------

        Yahoo! Groups Links



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      • Lisa Kies
        Greetings from Sofya to Elena, I agree with Sfandra. A koruna is fine for a 12th century maiden. It s the decorative details on the koruna that determine
        Message 3 of 8 , Jun 20, 2012
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          Greetings from Sofya to Elena,

          I agree with Sfandra. A koruna is fine for a 12th century maiden. It's
          the decorative details on the koruna that determine what period it is
          appropriate for. The Poliane had the three-bead temple rings, for example,
          to decorate the headresses.

          Here are some archeological finds and reconstructions based on them:
          http://club-kaup.narod.ru/rec/archussr_drrus_bk/archussr_drrus_bk_table66.jpg
          http://club-kaup.narod.ru/rec/archussr_drrus_bk/archussr_drrus_bk_table67.jpg
          (actually
          collars, but give more decorative ideas)
          http://club-kaup.narod.ru/rec/archussr_drrus_bk/archussr_drrus_bk_table71.jpg
          http://club-kaup.narod.ru/rec/archussr_drrus_bk/archussr_drrus_bk_table72.jpg
          http://club-kaup.narod.ru/rec/archussr_drrus_bk/archussr_drrus_bk_table73.jpg
          http://club-kaup.narod.ru/rec/archussr_drrus_bk/archussr_drrus_bk_table74.jpg
          http://club-kaup.narod.ru/rec/archussr_drrus_bk/archussr_drrus_bk_table76.jpg
          http://club-kaup.narod.ru/rec/archussr_drrus_bk/archussr_drrus_bk_table78.jpg
          The reason my webpage is confusing is that different Russian sources
          classify and discuss garments in different ways. And my clothing webpages
          are mostly a collection of notes trying to get all that information in one
          place for easier (?) comparison of what the different sources say, not my
          final judgement about what period Russians wore (which is constantly
          evolving).

          The triangular braid piece is a kosnik or nakosnik.

          At your service,

          Sofya la Rus


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        • princesstinkerbell1972
          Thank you, Sofya and Sfandra, this is extremely helpful. ... snip The Poliane had the three-bead temple rings, for example, ... I have some of these that I ve
          Message 4 of 8 , Jun 20, 2012
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            Thank you, Sofya and Sfandra, this is extremely helpful.

            --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, Lisa Kies <lkies319@...> wrote:
            >
            > Greetings from Sofya to Elena,
            >
            snip

            The Poliane had the three-bead temple rings, for example,
            > to decorate the headresses.

            I have some of these that I've reconstructed. Still perfecting my technique.

            >
            > Here are some archeological finds and reconstructions based on them:

            snip

            visuals! yay! I'm finding that it's really difficult to find women depicted in period art at all, and those that are depicted, are all married women. (Feel free to correct me on this)

            > The reason my webpage is confusing is that different Russian sources
            > classify and discuss garments in different ways.

            Only to be expected. Every archeologist and historian who looks at the artifacts has their own theories.

            And my clothing webpages
            > are mostly a collection of notes trying to get all that information in one
            > place for easier (?) comparison of what the different sources say, not my
            > final judgement about what period Russians wore (which is constantly
            > evolving).
            >

            I understand this, and I thank you for all the work you've put into your website to make that information available to the rest of us. It's sort of a "Here's what is out there. This is what we know right now. As new stuff is discovered, our ideas might change."

            But, it's still overwhelming to sift through it all. :)


            > The triangular braid piece is a kosnik or nakosnik.
            >

            Thanks for that tidbit, as well.


            Part of the fun of this for me(besides the research and the designing and the construction and the wearing of it) is that I'm the only unmarried female Slavic persona in the Barony of Andelcrag. Once I've figured it all out, I'll actually have something to teach others about, something that they haven't done research on themselves. I like that. Newbie that I am, I can contribute to the spread of knowledge.

            Okay, enough from me for now. Going off to work on my new Russian hat.

            Elena
          • Owlharp@juno.com
            Greetings from Fevronia! I was just wondering - has anyone done an English translation of the chapter that these wonderful drawings are taken from? Lady
            Message 5 of 8 , Jun 21, 2012
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              Greetings from Fevronia!

              I was just wondering - has anyone done an English translation of the
              chapter that these wonderful drawings are taken from?

              Lady Sfandra, I hope you are feeling better soon!

              S uvazheniem,

              Mistress Fevronia Murometsa
              ____________________________________________________________
              53 Year Old Mom Looks 33
              The Stunning Results of Her Wrinkle Trick Has Botox Doctors Worried
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            • Lisa Kies
              Greetings from Sofya to Frevronia! ... I have my rough translation of the Kolchin clothing chapter on my website.
              Message 6 of 8 , Jun 21, 2012
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                Greetings from Sofya to Frevronia!

                On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 4:04 PM, <Owlharp@...> wrote:

                > Greetings from Fevronia!
                >
                > I was just wondering - has anyone done an English translation of the
                > chapter that these wonderful drawings are taken from?
                >

                I have my rough translation of the Kolchin clothing chapter on my website.
                http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser/Russia/kolchin.html

                Sofya

                ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                Lisa M. Kies, MD aka Sofya la Rus, OL, CW, CSH, druzhinnitsa Kramolnikova
                Mason City, IA aka Shire of Heraldshill, Calontir
                ___
                http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser
                {o,o}
                "Si no necare, sana." "Mir znachit Pax Romanov"
                (__(|
                "Nasytivshimsya knizhnoj sladosti."
                -^-^-`
                ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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              • john Kowal
                Greetings All; My apologies. A couple ISG Members asked me about a source document on Keivan Rus naming. I have been crazy busy at work, but I have recently
                Message 7 of 8 , Jun 21, 2012
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                  Greetings All;
                  My apologies.
                  A couple ISG Members asked me about a source document on Keivan Rus naming. I have been crazy busy at work, but I have recently tried looking and looking and looking through my library and I can not seem to locate the pamphlet. I have no idea where it has gone? I may have lent it out and forgotten who it was too? Or it may be just lost in my house somewhere. The pamphlet was written and produced by the University of Manitoba. I will try and get down to the U of M Library to see if I can locate a copy and sign it out. But this will not happen before Pennsic 2nd War week. If I locate it sooner I will post here sooner.
                  Regards,
                  Aleksandr Vasilevych Lev


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                • Owlharp@juno.com
                  Ah, prekrasno! I hadn t realized that. Thank you very much! Fevronia On Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:18:32 -0500 Lisa Kies writes: Greetings from
                  Message 8 of 8 , Jun 21, 2012
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                    Ah, prekrasno! I hadn't realized that. Thank you very much!

                    Fevronia

                    On Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:18:32 -0500 Lisa Kies <lkies319@...> writes:

                    Greetings from Sofya to Frevronia!

                    On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 4:04 PM, <Owlharp@...> wrote:

                    > Greetings from Fevronia!
                    >
                    > I was just wondering - has anyone done an English translation of the
                    > chapter that these wonderful drawings are taken from?
                    >

                    I have my rough translation of the Kolchin clothing chapter on my
                    website.
                    http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser/Russia/kolchin.html

                    Sofya

                    .


                    ____________________________________________________________
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