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Lithuanian name help

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  • T Duran
    This came over the SCA Heralds list. Can anyone help ? ... Hello all, I ve been asked by a submitter to document for him the (allegedly) Lithuanian name Jakob
    Message 1 of 8 , Jan 24, 2012
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      This came over the SCA Heralds list. Can anyone help ?

      -----------
      Hello all,

      I've been asked by a submitter to document for him the (allegedly)
      Lithuanian name Jakob Blavasciunas

      What I know about Lithuanian can be crammed into a thimble with room to
      spare, so any help would be greatly appreciated.

      Mistress Alys Mackyntoich, Elmet Herald
      East Kingdom
      ------------

      I can pass on any replies.

      Kazimira
    • Quokkaqueen
      ... The modern Lithuanian form of Jakob is Jokūbas (with a - over the u). Luckily, in the 16th century, there was a publisher called
      Message 2 of 8 , Jan 24, 2012
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        <<snip>>
        > I've been asked by a submitter to document for him the (allegedly)
        > Lithuanian name Jakob Blavasciunas
        <<snip>>

        The modern Lithuanian form of 'Jakob' is Jokūbas (with a - over the u). Luckily, in the 16th century, there was a publisher called Jokūbas Morkūnas who was publishing Calvinist literature, and he was kind enough to have written his name (and the date of publication - 1600) on the front page of the Postilla.

        See: http://www.theeuropeanlibrary.org/exhibition-reading-europe/detail.html?id=96428 for a description, and
        http://www.epaveldas.lt/vbspi//content/biImage.jsp?biRecordId=12104&imageId=/vbspi/showImage.do?id=PG_S_109345_3

        If my reading of Fraktur is correct, then it says:
        "Per Jokubs Morkuns"

        Similarly, 'Blavasciunas' is 'Blavaščiūnas' / Blava{s^}{c^}i{u-}nas. It's a real surname that is used today, but I haven't found anything dating it any earlier than the 20th century. Sorry!

        ~Asfridhr
      • T Duran
        ... Thanks, Asfridhr, I ll pass that on. Kazimira
        Message 3 of 8 , Jan 24, 2012
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          On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 11:06 AM, Quokkaqueen <quokkaqueen@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          > <<snip>>
          >
          >
          >
          > ~Asfridhr
          >

          Thanks, Asfridhr, I'll pass that on.

          Kazimira
        • Quokkaqueen
          ... Pass on my apologies, I misread the Fraktur script. It isn t an s, its an a-ogonek/nasal a (ogonek is the Polish name, but seems to be the one used in
          Message 4 of 8 , Jan 24, 2012
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            > Thanks, Asfridhr, I'll pass that on.
            >
            > Kazimira
            >

            Pass on my apologies, I misread the Fraktur script. It isn't an s, its an a-ogonek/nasal'a' (ogonek is the Polish name, but seems to be the one used in English), making it "Jokubą Morkuną" - and his name in the accusative case. In modern Lithuanian (see, for instance here: http://ikindalikelanguages.com/labs/lesson.php?id=256), the accusative case is formed by taking the consonants off the end of the word, and adding an ogonek to the vowel.

            So, to get Jokubą Morkuną into the nominative case, it's Jokuba- Morkuna-, and as it's a male name the ending is -as, so it's "Jokubas Morkunas".

            I'm so sorry! It's not Jokubs, but Jokub_a_s. :(

            Asfridhr
          • Patty
            Once again, I bow to Asfridhr s amazing research capabilities! (Don t worry, I too thought that script was really hard to read.) I found one Academy of St.
            Message 5 of 8 , Jan 24, 2012
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              Once again, I bow to Asfridhr's amazing research capabilities! (Don't worry, I too thought that script was really hard to read.)

              I found one Academy of St. Gabriel report that might be relevant: http://www.panix.com/~gabriel/public-bin/showfinal.cgi?3164+0. In its references you'll find the URL of the one good article on Lithuanian names on the Internet: http://www.lituanus.org/1982_3/82_3_01.htm. Some relevant points from both these articles:

              * Lithuanians wouldn't have been christened with a saint (or Biblical-type) name until after the 1360s, when the country went Christian for good. So your client should be requesting a late-period name. As the Lituanus article says, family names started happening around the end of the 14th century. (I'd hate for the submission to bounce simply because the submitter wants a pre-1000 persona.)

              * Many of the pre-Christian Lithuanian names became surnames once people started taking Christian names. My own mundane surname may be an example of the two-root pre-Christian name that became a surname. Legally, my last name is Daukantas, which may be a contraction of the words (in modern Lithuanian) "daug kantrybės," meaning "much patience."

              * The Lituanus article also mentions a number of Slavic suffixes and diminutives that got mixed into Lithuanian surnames with endings like -avicius, -evicius, -auskas, -skaitas and so forth (although the last one sound a bit Polish in origin to me). I don't see -sciunas or -ciunas listed in those suffixes, but Lithuanian surnames with those endings exist, I'm sure.

              Which brings me to this final comment-question pair: Like Asfridhr, I cannot find anything about Blavasciunas pre-1600 -- the only hits I can find on Google are to living people or to someone named Agatha Blavasciunas who died in 1976. Where did the submitter find this surname? Is it his legal surname? If so, he should be good to go with it with proper documentation to the College of Heralds. (There is a Laurel for Polish studies who uses his mundane Polish-American surname for his Polish persona name, so it certainly can be done.) If it is not his legal surname, then he needs to show the heralds where he found it (other than the Vilnius phone book).

              Finally, I wish we had a few more lists of Lithuanian names like the lists found at heraldry.sca.org/laurel/names.html. St. Gabriel has only two name articles listed for Lithuania and one vanished when Geocities.com closed. Maybe one of these days I'll haul my sorry underemployed butt over to the Library of Congress and do some digging....

              In service,
              Lady Patricia of Trakai
              Drakkar Pursuivant, Barony of Storvik (Atlantia)






              -----Original Message-----
              From: Quokkaqueen <quokkaqueen@...>
              To: sig <sig@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Tue, Jan 24, 2012 9:00 pm
              Subject: [sig] Re: Lithuanian name help


              > Thanks, Asfridhr, I'll pass that on.
              >
              > Kazimira
              >

              Pass on my apologies, I misread the Fraktur script. It isn't an s, its an
              a-ogonek/nasal'a' (ogonek is the Polish name, but seems to be the one used in
              English), making it "Jokubą Morkuną" - and his name in the accusative
              case. In modern Lithuanian (see, for instance here: http://ikindalikelanguages.com/labs/lesson.php?id=256),
              the accusative case is formed by taking the consonants off the end of the word,
              and adding an ogonek to the vowel.

              So, to get Jokubą Morkuną into the nominative case, it's Jokuba-
              Morkuna-, and as it's a male name the ending is -as, so it's "Jokubas Morkunas".


              I'm so sorry! It's not Jokubs, but Jokub_a_s. :(

              Asfridhr




              ------------------------------------

              Yahoo! Groups Links







              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Quokkaqueen
              ... Feminine Feminine Names from the Gediminid Line of Lithuania
              Message 6 of 8 , Jan 24, 2012
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                <<snip>>
                > Finally, I wish we had a few more lists of Lithuanian names like the lists found at heraldry.sca.org/laurel/names.html. St. Gabriel has only two name articles listed for Lithuania and one vanished when Geocities.com closed. Maybe one of these days I'll haul my sorry underemployed butt over to the Library of Congress and do some digging....
                <<snip>>

                Feminine Feminine Names from the Gediminid Line of Lithuania
                http://web.archive.org/web/20090621214740/http://www.geocities.com/Athens/1336/gediminidfem.html

                Articles I've never sat down and pulled the names out of (without any special characters, given Yahoo Groups eats them):

                Jurate Cirunaite. 2004. "XVIâ€"XVII a. Lietuvos totoriu moteru ivardijimo struktura" [The naming structure of 16-17th c. Lithuanian tatar women] _Lituanistica_ No 4
                http://www.lmaleidykla.lt/lituanistica/2004/4/2422

                Jurate Cirunaite. 2009. "Lietuvos Didžiosios Kunigaikstystės zydu ivardijimas slaviskuose XV a. dokumentuose" [The naming of Jews in 15th century Slavic documents of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania] _Lituanistica_ No 3-4
                http://www.lmaleidykla.lt/lituanistica/2009/3-4/5691

                It's not much, I know. :(

                Asfridhr
              • T Duran
                ... And yet, way more than we had when we started ! Thanks so much ! Kazimira
                Message 7 of 8 , Jan 25, 2012
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                  >
                  > It's not much, I know. :(

                  And yet, way more than we had when we started ! Thanks so much !

                  Kazimira
                • Quokkaqueen
                  ... I found another Jokubas, this time he s from a Ruthentian-language document though (I am relying entirely on the website description, as I can t read
                  Message 8 of 8 , Jan 28, 2012
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                    > <<snip>>
                    > > I've been asked by a submitter to document for him the (allegedly)
                    > > Lithuanian name Jakob Blavasciunas
                    > <<snip>>

                    I found another Jokubas, this time he's from a Ruthentian-language document though (I am relying entirely on the website description, as I can't read Cyrillic handwriting):

                    "Vypis s knig sprav sudovyh dvora kejdanskogo"/"Kėdainių dvaro teismas. Sprendimas, kuriuo Kėdaini" (I can get the Kedainiai Town?-Court Verduct part, but the rest I can't translate, sorry.)

                    Descriptions:
                    http://www.europeana.eu/portal/record/92004/D82A335519D91FEE4900DDE3715A085894DA102C.html?start=6&query=lithuania
                    and
                    http://www.manuscriptorium.com/apps/main/en/index.php?request=request_document&docId=set20091210_70_1

                    The document:
                    http://gluosnis.vu.lt/biblio/dshow?id=VUB01_155190

                    I think it's a court verdict, against some townspeople of Kedainai (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C4%97dainiai) in 1608, including a Mikolaj (who was looking for 14th century examples), and a Jokubas.

                    "Jokūbas Tretjakas" (in modern Lithuanian) is transcribed from the Cyrillic as "Jakub Tret'jak", which is closer to what the client was looking for. But it's also a Slavic-looking byname in a Slavic-language document.

                    I also found a Polish-language document, that seems to be dated between 1585-1654

                    http://www.europeana.eu/portal/record/92004/9A3A23EE0F46980E68F8F9C2D43D40B133971D86.html?query=lithuania+Jok%C5%ABbas&qf=YEAR:1585

                    But there's no transcription, and I can't easily find where Jokubas is mentioned. There's a scan of the document here:
                    http://www.manuscriptorium.com/apps/main/en/index.php?request=show_tei_digidoc&docId=set20091210_70_597

                    Cheers,

                    Asfridhr
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