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Re: SCA Lithuanian Name

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  • Gary C
    I chose the Mikolaj based upon finding it used by multiple people in period: Miko³aj II Radziwi³³ (1470–1521), Grand Chancellor of Lithuania Miko³aj III
    Message 1 of 8 , Jan 11, 2012
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      I chose the Mikolaj based upon finding it used by multiple people in period:

      Miko³aj II Radziwi³³ (1470–1521), Grand Chancellor of Lithuania
      Miko³aj III Radziwi³³ (1492–1530), Bishop of Samogitia
      Miko³aj "the Red" Radziwi³³ (1512–1584), Voivode of Vilnius, Grand Chancellor and Grand Hetman of Lithuania
      Miko³aj "the Black" Radziwi³³ (1515–1565), Voivode of Vilnius, Grand Chancellor and Grand Hetman of Lithuania
      Miko³aj VII Radziwi³³ (1546–1589), Voivode of Navahrudak
      Miko³aj Krzysztof "the Orphan" Radziwi³³ (1549–1616), Grand Marshal of Lithuania, voivode of Trakai and Vilnius

      I chose the Pilypas because the person that first got me interested in the SCA was named Phillip. I would be fine with using the patronymic.

      Any other suggestions?
    • Quokkaqueen
      ... As everyone else has said, due to the lack of resources available, Lithuanian names are tricky. Part of the problem is that the language
      Message 2 of 8 , Jan 11, 2012
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        <<snip>>
        > I am looking for assistance on a Lithuanian name for the SCA. I looking for 14th - 15th century. How close is "Mikolaj Pilypas"?
        <<snip>>

        As everyone else has said, due to the lack of resources available, Lithuanian names are tricky. Part of the problem is that the language wasn't written down until the 16th century, so there aren't any 'primary' Lithuanian sources.

        Nicolaus Copernicus (Latin) is known modernly as Mikołaj Kopernik Polish) or Mikalojus Kopernikas (Lithuanian), although if Wikipedia is to be believed he spelled it in a range of different ways himself (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolaus_Copernicus).

        Similarly, Nicolaus Hussovianus (Latin) is also known as Mikołaj Hussowczyk (Polish) and Mikalojus Husovianas (Lithuanian), even though what little I've found out about him indicates he wrote in Latin, and so was Nicolaus. (See http://www.antologija.lt/texts/2/main.html for an example).

        Incidentally, in the later Grand Duchy, it seems people used locative bynames. (possibly like Nicolaus Hussovianus) Have you considered the town of Pilviškiai The earliest date I can find for it is 1536, on the Ruthenian(?) form "Пильвишки"/"Pylvyshky".

        Source:
        Aleksandras Vanagas, 2004. "Lietuvos Miestu Vardai" (Vilnius: Mokslo ir Enciklopediju Leidybos Institutas); p. 158.

        In any case, it depends why you are asking about a Lithuanian name - if it is because you want to register it with the SCA heralds, then it needs to be documented (and I, personally, think a Latinized Lithuanian name would be *awesome* given that the heralds are more interested in registering how it was spelled than how it was said...), but if you aren't interested then there is nothing official to stop you from calling yourself whatever you please! :)

        Not sure if any of that helps,

        Asfridhr
      • Quokkaqueen
        We might be in luck! (Although I ve only been able to look at 16-17th c. documents.) Historical Documents of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania
        Message 3 of 8 , Jan 13, 2012
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          We might be in luck! (Although I've only been able to look at 16-17th c. documents.)

          Historical Documents of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania (http://pergamentai.mch.mii.lt/IstoriniaiLietDok/indexen.en.htm), part of the website of the National Library of Lithuania has a few documents online that might help!

          LNMMB F101-41 from 1590
          http://pergamentai.mch.mii.lt/IstoriniaiLietDok/istoriniailietdok_5en.en.htm
          Mkolay Sakietla kuchmistr wlasną ręką (Mikolaj Sakietla, eating-house keeper)
          http://pergamentai.mch.mii.lt/IstoriniaiLietDok/F101-41/images/F101-41a.jpg for a scan of the document. See the third line from the bottom in Polish. I swear it says Mikolay Narnbewicz instead of Mkolay Sakietla, but I know nothing of 16th century orthography. Can anyone help?


          LNMMB F101-50 from 1618
          http://pergamentai.mch.mii.lt/IstoriniaiLietDok/istoriniailietdok_6en.en.htm
          Krystyna Mikolaiowna (Krystyna Mikołajowna)


          LNMMB F101-57 from 1631 seems to have the un-standardised form:
          http://pergamentai.mch.mii.lt/IstoriniaiLietDok/istoriniailietdok_7en.en.htm

          Mikołaÿ Abramowicz ręką swą (ie. Mikołaj Abramowicz, son of the palatine of Smolensk).


          So at least in Polish documents, produced in Lithuania, the name Mikolai or Mikolay might be used?

          I'll keep looking for any forms of Philip/Pilyp/Filip I can find.

          ~Asfridhr
        • Quokkaqueen
          http://pergamentai.mch.mii.lt/IstoriniaiLietDok/F101-41/images/F101-41a.jpg for a scan of the document. See the third line from the bottom in Polish.
          Message 4 of 8 , Jan 13, 2012
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            <<snip>>
            http://pergamentai.mch.mii.lt/IstoriniaiLietDok/F101-41/images/F101-41a.jpg for a scan of the document. See the third line from the bottom in Polish. I swear it says Mikolay Narnbewicz instead of Mkolay Sakietla, but I know nothing of 16th century orthography. Can anyone help?
            <<snip>>

            Oops, I'm pretty sure the 'b' is really an eszett or ß to stans for sz... and the second n is probably a u... so Naruszewicz?

            ~Asfridhr, can't read.
          • Quokkaqueen
            Weirdly enough, I found this webpage: 1528 Census of Troops of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania http://kdkv.narod.ru/1528-VKL/index.htm And under F /Ô
            Message 5 of 8 , Jan 16, 2012
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              Weirdly enough, I found this webpage:

              1528 Census of Troops of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania
              http://kdkv.narod.ru/1528-VKL/index.htm

              And under 'F'/Ô
              http://kdkv.narod.ru/1528-VKL/1528-21f.htm

              There is a "Filipovich, Mikolay"/"Ôèëèïîâè÷ Ìèêîëàé" listed.

              If I've understood things correctly, then this is based on the Lithuanian Metrica and so is written in Ruthenian, which may be why it looks like such a Slavic name.

              But if more experienced people than I could have a look at the webpages, it'd be much appreciated!

              Asfridhr
              --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, "Gary C" <gcheimis@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hi All,
              > I am looking for assistance on a Lithuanian name for the SCA. I looking for 14th - 15th century. How close is "Mikolaj Pilypas"?
              >
              > Thanks in advance for any assistance.
              >
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