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Are laquer boxes period?

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  • anyastickney
    Greetings to the SIG community, I ve been lurking in the group for a while, but now have a question that I can t seem to find an answer to. Are russian laquer
    Message 1 of 6 , Dec 11, 2011
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      Greetings to the SIG community,

      I've been lurking in the group for a while, but now have a question that I can't seem to find an answer to.

      Are russian laquer boxes period in the SCA (i.e. pre-17th century)? In my archeology books, I've only been able to find evidence of wooden/birch boxes painted with egg tempera. But no laquer boxes. Has anyone ever seen evidence of something even similar to laquer boxes?

      Thanks,
      Anya
    • T Duran
      ... Hi Anya The Internet seems to think the modern Russian painted papier mache boxes are the post-period child of German snuff-boxes and Russian
      Message 2 of 6 , Dec 11, 2011
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        On Mon, Dec 12, 2011 at 10:47 AM, anyastickney <anyas5@...> wrote:
        >
        > Are russian laquer boxes period in the SCA (i.e. pre-17th century)? In my archeology books, I've only been able to find evidence of wooden/birch boxes painted with egg tempera. But no laquer boxes. Has anyone ever seen evidence of something even similar to laquer boxes?

        Hi Anya

        The Internet seems to think the modern Russian painted papier mache
        boxes are the post-period child of German snuff-boxes and Russian
        icon-painters:

        http://www.russianamericancompany.com/info/russianlacquerboxes.htm
        http://www.russianlacquerboxes.org/history.html

        I can tell you that painted and carved laquer boxes have been a going
        concern in the East since BC, and that some of what was popular in the
        13thC would have come west with the Golden Horde, and gotten into
        Russia that way. I can document carved and painted laquer eating ware
        and traveling chests in Central Asia in the Middle Ages. They
        wouldn't have been anything like the modern ones painted with fairy
        tale scenes, though. I'll see if I can turn up anything more
        concrete, but I think looking for lacquer ware associated with the
        Golden Horde is probably your best bet.

        HTH

        Kazimira
      • Lisa Kies
        Greetings from Sofya to Anya! ... I ve never seen any evidence in period, either. And according to this webpage - http://www.russianlacquerart.com/ - the
        Message 3 of 6 , Dec 11, 2011
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          Greetings from Sofya to Anya!

          On Sun, Dec 11, 2011 at 3:47 PM, anyastickney <anyas5@...> wrote:



          > I've been lurking in the group for a while, but now have a question that I
          > can't seem to find an answer to.
          >
          > Are russian laquer boxes period in the SCA (i.e. pre-17th century)? In my
          > archeology books, I've only been able to find evidence of wooden/birch
          > boxes painted with egg tempera. But no laquer boxes. Has anyone ever seen
          > evidence of something even similar to laquer boxes?
          >
          > Thanks,
          > Anya
          >

          I've never seen any evidence in period, either. And according to this
          webpage - http://www.russianlacquerart.com/ - the technique is only about
          200 years old.

          There is more information here:
          http://www.russia-ic.com/culture_art/visual_arts/965/

          This information agrees with the development of lacquer in Europe in
          imitation of East Asian items.
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lacquer
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanning

          Interestingly, some of the Russian lacquer boxes are painted with oils, but
          other are painted with egg tempera just like icons, and the industry came
          out of the icon-making industry. So the new lacquer boxes were
          probably descended to some extent from painted wooden items such as those
          documented by archeologists.

          Khokhloma ware and matroshka dolls aren't period either. :-(

          Sofya

          ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

          Lisa M. Kies, MD aka Sofya la Rus, OL, CW, CSH, druzhinnitsa Kramolnikova
          Mason City, IA aka Shire of Heraldshill, Calontir
          ___
          http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser
          {o,o}
          "Si no necare, sana." "Mir znachit Pax Romanov"
          (__(|
          "Nasytivshimsya knizhnoj sladosti."
          -^-^-`
          ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Tatiana
          However, as far as I know, there are two forms of Russian art that are period, Mezen painting and Gzhel. Gzel is somewhat questionable, but Mezen is definitely
          Message 4 of 6 , Jan 9, 2012
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            However, as far as I know, there are two forms of Russian art that are period, Mezen painting and Gzhel.
            Gzel is somewhat questionable, but Mezen is definitely period. Please Google for more info, as I still can't get my files organized after the move.

            Hope this helps,

            Tatiana Moskovskaia
          • Anya Stickney
            I have seen this, but never knew what the style was called. Thanks! -Anya ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            Message 5 of 6 , Jan 9, 2012
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              I have seen this, but never knew what the style was called. Thanks!

              -Anya


              On Mon, Jan 9, 2012 at 2:08 PM, Tatiana <littlegreensardine@...>wrote:

              > **
              >
              >
              >
              > However, as far as I know, there are two forms of Russian art that are
              > period, Mezen painting and Gzhel.
              > Gzel is somewhat questionable, but Mezen is definitely period. Please
              > Google for more info, as I still can't get my files organized after the
              > move.
              >
              > Hope this helps,
              >
              > Tatiana Moskovskaia
              >
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Tatiana
              You are welcome, Mezen art is beautiful in it s simplicity and easily recreated in embroidery and such. Tatiana Moskovskaia
              Message 6 of 6 , Jan 9, 2012
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                You are welcome,

                Mezen art is beautiful in it's simplicity and easily recreated in embroidery and such.

                Tatiana Moskovskaia

                --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, Anya Stickney <anyas5@...> wrote:
                >
                > I have seen this, but never knew what the style was called. Thanks!
                >
                > -Anya
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