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Re: [sig] Need a household name in Russian

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  • Amy Tubbs
    No, I only just thought of asking when I saw this post. --Vitasha ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    Message 1 of 22 , Jun 24, 2011
      No, I only just thought of asking when I saw this post.
      --Vitasha


      On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 11:07 PM, Liudmila <LiudmilaV@...> wrote:

      > **
      >
      >
      >
      > Did you already ask me and I missed it? Bad laurel... So:
      > Il'in Dom or Il'in Dvor, either way. I think that "podvor'e" was often used
      > in this context, and not "dvor," but have to look it up. In that case,
      > Il'ino Podvor'e.
      > Also: Aleksandrovichev Dom or Dvor.
      >
      > Liudmila
      >
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: Amy Tubbs <ivanova.doch@...>
      > To: sig@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Mon, Jun 20, 2011 7:08 pm
      > Subject: Re: [sig] Need a household name in Russian
      >
      > My husband also was looking into formally creating a household now that he
      > is a knight. His name is Ilia Aleksandrovich. Would these be correct
      > constructions for a household name?
      >
      > Dom Ilinii or Ilinii Dvor
      > Dom Aleksandrovii (or would it need to be Aleksandrovichii? Can you even do
      > that construction?)
      >
      > -- Vitasha
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Howard Rachel
      Pushkarev s Dictionary of Russian Historical Terms has: *Podvorie* - a DVOR (household) in general, esp. a city household that belonged to an outside owner
      Message 2 of 22 , Jun 25, 2011
        Pushkarev's Dictionary of Russian Historical Terms has:

        *Podvorie* - "a DVOR (household) in general, esp. a city household that
        belonged to an outside owner (like a monsatary or rich land owner)"

        *podvornik* - "a person who lived and worked in another's household"

        *dvor* - "Household; homestead; yard; court. In the chronicles dvor
        sometimes meant the prince's military service men collectively."

        I believe this differentiates dvor and podvorie significantly, and supports
        dvor as better in the context of an SCA household.

        Kazimir, Meridies


        On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 10:19 PM, Lisa Kies <lkies319@...> wrote:

        > **
        >
        >
        > Greetings from Sofya!
        >
        > On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 1:07 AM, Liudmila <LiudmilaV@...> wrote:
        >
        > >
        > > I think that "podvor'e" was often used in this context, and not "dvor,"
        > > but have to look it up. In that case, Il'ino Podvor'e.
        > >
        > I can find only a limited number of period examples of podvor'e in
        > Sreznevskii's Dictionary. It's not a term I'm familiar with. Let's see,
        > Sreznevskii defines it as "a house with court (dvor) and courtyard
        > structures, country estate, residence". Ozhigov defines it as an inn/hostel
        > (meaning 1), or a type of hotel intended for clerics (meaning 2), or a
        > court
        > and vegetable garden on the property of a rural home. So that works.
        >
        > On the other hand, Sreznevskii has dozens of examples of dvor' from period
        > documents. Along with many terms (such as dvorianin, dvornik, dvornyi,
        > dvorcheskii, and podvor'e, itself) derived from it.
        >
        > On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 1:07 AM, Liudmila <LiudmilaV@...> wrote:
        >
        > >
        > > Did you already ask me and I missed it? Bad laurel... So:
        > > Il'in Dom or Il'in Dvor, either way. I think that "podvor'e" was often
        > used
        > > in this context, and not "dvor," but have to look it up. In that case,
        > > Il'ino Podvor'e.
        > > Also: Aleksandrovichev Dom or Dvor.
        > >
        >
        > I would have thought that genitive case would be used here, rather than a
        > patronymic form (which is related to genitive case, but not the same). But
        > I'm not a native Russian speaker, of course.
        >
        > Genitive case forms:
        > Dom/Dvor Il'i (I'm used to putting the owner's name last but, of course,
        > that's flexible)
        > Dom/Dvor Aleksandrovicha (of the son of Aleksander) or Aleksandrovichov
        > (plural - of the sons of Aleksander, the Aleksandrovichi)
        >
        > Adjectival forms:
        > Il'inskii Dom/Dvor (Il'inskaia Druzhina)
        > Aleksandrovskii Dom/Dvor (Aleksandrovskaia Druzhina)
        >
        > At your service,
        >
        > Sofya
        >
        > ----------------------------------------------------------
        >
        > Lisa M. Kies, MD aka Sofya la Rus, OL, CW, CSH, druzhinnitsa Kramolnikova
        > Mason City, IA aka Shire of Heraldshill, Calontir
        > ___
        > http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser
        > {o,o}
        > "Si no necare, sana." "Mir znachit Pax Romanov"
        > (__(|
        > "Nasytivshimsya knizhnoj sladosti."
        > -^-^-`
        > ----------------------------------------------------------
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Sfandra
        Yeah, given rather sharp wit of my housemates, anything that rhymes is asking for trouble....   As it is, they already tend to sing the following around me:
        Message 3 of 22 , Jun 25, 2011
          Yeah, given rather sharp wit of my housemates, anything that rhymes is asking for trouble....
           
          As it is, they already tend to sing the following around me:
          "Look at me, I'm Sfandra D..."

          I like 'dvor'.   Would it be Sfandriskii Dvor?

          --Sfandra
           

          ******************

          From: Lisa Kies <lkies319@...>
          To: sig@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Friday, June 24, 2011 10:27 PM
          Subject: Re: [sig] Need a household name in Russian

          Sounds cute, like the title of an 80s music group...

          I still wonder about using the genitive case here instead of a patronymic
          form, but it wouldn't have the same ring to it - Druzhina Sfandrina vs.
          Druzhina Sfandri

          Sofya

          On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 1:03 AM, Liudmila <LiudmilaV@...> wrote:

          >
          >  Sfandrina Druzhina sort of rhymes, and does not sound bad at all...
          >
          > Liudmila, the absent
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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        • Sfandra
          Wow, helps if I read ALL the emails before replying!   I really like Sfandrinskaia Druzhina...  And it has the bonus of probably being unpronounceable to
          Message 4 of 22 , Jun 25, 2011
            Wow, helps if I read ALL the emails before replying!
             
            I really like Sfandrinskaia Druzhina...  And it has the bonus of probably being unpronounceable to everyone in my household.
             
            --Sfandra

            ******************


            From: Sfandra <seonaid13@...>
            To: "sig@yahoogroups.com" <sig@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2011 8:04 PM
            Subject: Re: [sig] Need a household name in Russian

            Yeah, given rather sharp wit of my housemates, anything that rhymes is asking for trouble....
             
            As it is, they already tend to sing the following around me:
            "Look at me, I'm Sfandra D..."

            I like 'dvor'.   Would it be Sfandriskii Dvor?

            --Sfandra
             

            ******************

            From: Lisa Kies <lkies319@...>
            To: sig@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Friday, June 24, 2011 10:27 PM
            Subject: Re: [sig] Need a household name in Russian

            Sounds cute, like the title of an 80s music group...

            I still wonder about using the genitive case here instead of a patronymic
            form, but it wouldn't have the same ring to it - Druzhina Sfandrina vs.
            Druzhina Sfandri

            Sofya

            On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 1:03 AM, Liudmila <LiudmilaV@...> wrote:

            >
            >  Sfandrina Druzhina sort of rhymes, and does not sound bad at all...
            >
            > Liudmila, the absent
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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          • Lisa Kies
            Greetings from Sofya! ... I didn t forget about you, Dok. I just needed some time to devote to the problem. The problem is that hammered doesn t have the
            Message 5 of 22 , Jun 29, 2011
              Greetings from Sofya!

              On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 2:44 PM, Tim Nalley <mordakus@...> wrote:

              > What about Hammered Goat (Forge and Brewery)? Its for my mancave....
              > 'dok


              I didn't forget about you, 'Dok. I just needed some time to devote to the
              problem. The problem is that "hammered" doesn't have the same double
              meaning in Russian as it does in English. No matter what angle I go at it,
              no matter what synonyms I pursue, I'm just not finding a very good Russian
              translation.

              Goat = kozyol (male)
              Drunken = p'yanyj, napivshijsya
              Smashed = vdryzg p'yanyj or vdrebezgi p'yanyj � blind / dead / stiff drunk
              Hammer = molot;
              To hammer = bit', udaryat';
              hammered/forged = kovanyj
              *to forge = kovat', vykovyvat'*, chekanit';
              a smithy = kuznitsa, adj. kuznechnyj;
              beaten/broken down = razbityj

              The best I can come up with is the alliterative "Kuznechnyi Kozyol" which
              means "smithy goat" but doesn't include the brewery angle, unless you figure
              that a goat that will eat anything will likely drink anything also. Same
              problem with Kovanyj Kozyol - hammered/forged goat.

              ;-)

              Sofya

              ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

              Lisa M. Kies, MD aka Sofya la Rus, OL, CW, CSH, druzhinnitsa Kramolnikova
              Mason City, IA aka Shire of Heraldshill, Calontir
              ___
              http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser
              {o,o}
              "Si no necare, sana." "Mir znachit Pax Romanov"
              (__(|
              "Nasytivshimsya knizhnoj sladosti."
              -^-^-`
              ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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