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Need a household name in Russian

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  • Sfandra
    Hi there everyone! I could use a hand from those that actually speak Russian.     See, in the household to which I belong, all peers are expected to form
    Message 1 of 22 , Jun 15, 2011
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      Hi there everyone!

      I could use a hand from those that actually speak Russian.     See, in the household to which I belong, all peers are expected to form their own 'sub-houses'.  To give an example, Maitresse Irene LeNoir is a Peer of Haus VonDrakenklaue, and Mistress of Chateau LeNoir.  So the heads of Haus VDK have been bugging me to officially name my household now that I too am a Peer of Haus VDK (and when they ALSO wear the Crowns of the Realm, you can't exactly blow them off!! :-D  )  Sub-houses are usually named according to the Peer's (or squire's) persona.    

      Truth is... I'm kinda stumped.   My initial idea was pointlessly florid and horrible, and likely to have been awful in Russian anyway.    So now I'm trying to think of something either "--gorod" or "--grad" though I think the latter might be a post-period structure.   Unfortunately, I can't name my household "Chernigov" as that's already taken. ;-)

      Has anyone here looked into theoretical household-naming in Russian?   Does anyone have a household with a russian name?  Are there any historical types of proper names for a group of people, "Oprichniki" notwithstanding? ;-)  Or ideas on how to make up a plausibly historical city/town type name?

      Thanks,
      Sfandra



       

      ******************
      Posadnitsa Sfandra Dmitrieva Chernigova
      O.L., O.M., K.O.E., Haus VDK, East Kingdom
      http://sfandra.webs.com
      Never 'pearl' your butt.
      ******************

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Sasha
      Ooooh good question! I would like to know that also! Sasha [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      Message 2 of 22 , Jun 15, 2011
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        Ooooh good question! I would like to know that also!

        Sasha


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Yevgeniya Pechenaya
        Ok this is possibly a bit of a hodgepodge of info that I m about to spew out. the --gorod or --grad ending can be added on to pretty much any word or name
        Message 3 of 22 , Jun 15, 2011
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          Ok this is possibly a bit of a hodgepodge of info that I'm about to spew out.
          the --gorod" or "--grad" ending can be added on to pretty much any word or name
          to form and town name
          ex: Leningrad or Novgorod

          Group names can also come from things like professions, social status,
          geographic locations, tribal name or name of a person they associate with.
          ex: Oprichniki (social status)
          ex2: Казаки́ or Kosaks (i think that's how you spell it) (geographic and social
          status)

          You can also do something like Сфандровцы (Sfandrovtsy) as in those belonging to
          Sfanda
          Actually i think using your last name in this case will be more appropriate:
          You would go with Черниговцы (Chernigovtsy) I'm not sure if that would work
          since you can't do Chernigov

          If you were to turn your first name into a town it'd be something line Сфандров
          (Sfandrov)

          What about your heraldry and badges or anything else that you use? I seem to
          remember you have a patron saint right? Which one?

          How about Лукоморье (Lurkmorye)? potentially not very period but definitely very
          Russian.

          Lada

          Oooooh...
          SHINY!




          ________________________________
          From: Sfandra <seonaid13@...>
          To: "sig@yahoogroups.com" <sig@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Wed, June 15, 2011 2:05:07 PM
          Subject: [sig] Need a household name in Russian


          Hi there everyone!

          I could use a hand from those that actually speak Russian. See, in the
          household to which I belong, all peers are expected to form their own
          'sub-houses'. To give an example, Maitresse Irene LeNoir is a Peer of Haus
          VonDrakenklaue, and Mistress of Chateau LeNoir. So the heads of Haus VDK have
          been bugging me to officially name my household now that I too am a Peer of Haus
          VDK (and when they ALSO wear the Crowns of the Realm, you can't exactly blow
          them off!! :-D ) Sub-houses are usually named according to the Peer's (or
          squire's) persona.

          Truth is... I'm kinda stumped. My initial idea was pointlessly florid and
          horrible, and likely to have been awful in Russian anyway. So now I'm trying
          to think of something either "--gorod" or "--grad" though I think the latter
          might be a post-period structure. Unfortunately, I can't name my household
          "Chernigov" as that's already taken. ;-)

          Has anyone here looked into theoretical household-naming in Russian? Does
          anyone have a household with a russian name? Are there any historical types of
          proper names for a group of people, "Oprichniki" notwithstanding? ;-) Or ideas
          on how to make up a plausibly historical city/town type name?

          Thanks,
          Sfandra



          ******************
          Posadnitsa Sfandra Dmitrieva Chernigova
          O.L., O.M., K.O.E., Haus VDK, East Kingdom
          http://sfandra.webs.com
          Never 'pearl' your butt.
          ******************

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Yevgeniya Pechenaya
          Лукоморье is actually pronounced (Lukomorye) i made a typo... Lada Oooooh... SHINY! ________________________________ From: Yevgeniya Pechenaya
          Message 4 of 22 , Jun 15, 2011
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            Лукоморье is actually pronounced (Lukomorye) i made a typo...




            Lada

            Oooooh...
            SHINY!




            ________________________________
            From: Yevgeniya Pechenaya <ladie_lada@...>
            To: sig@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Wed, June 15, 2011 2:53:37 PM
            Subject: Re: [sig] Need a household name in Russian


            Ok this is possibly a bit of a hodgepodge of info that I'm about to spew out.
            the --gorod" or "--grad" ending can be added on to pretty much any word or name
            to form and town name
            ex: Leningrad or Novgorod

            Group names can also come from things like professions, social status,
            geographic locations, tribal name or name of a person they associate with.
            ex: Oprichniki (social status)
            ex2: Казаки́ or Kosaks (i think that's how you spell it) (geographic and social
            status)

            You can also do something like Сфандровцы (Sfandrovtsy) as in those belonging to

            Sfanda
            Actually i think using your last name in this case will be more appropriate:
            You would go with Черниговцы (Chernigovtsy) I'm not sure if that would work
            since you can't do Chernigov

            If you were to turn your first name into a town it'd be something line Сфандров
            (Sfandrov)

            What about your heraldry and badges or anything else that you use? I seem to
            remember you have a patron saint right? Which one?

            How about Лукоморье (Lurkmorye)? potentially not very period but definitely very

            Russian.

            Lada

            Oooooh...
            SHINY!

            ________________________________
            From: Sfandra <seonaid13@...>
            To: "sig@yahoogroups.com" <sig@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Wed, June 15, 2011 2:05:07 PM
            Subject: [sig] Need a household name in Russian

            Hi there everyone!

            I could use a hand from those that actually speak Russian. See, in the
            household to which I belong, all peers are expected to form their own
            'sub-houses'. To give an example, Maitresse Irene LeNoir is a Peer of Haus
            VonDrakenklaue, and Mistress of Chateau LeNoir. So the heads of Haus VDK have
            been bugging me to officially name my household now that I too am a Peer of Haus

            VDK (and when they ALSO wear the Crowns of the Realm, you can't exactly blow
            them off!! :-D ) Sub-houses are usually named according to the Peer's (or
            squire's) persona.

            Truth is... I'm kinda stumped. My initial idea was pointlessly florid and
            horrible, and likely to have been awful in Russian anyway. So now I'm trying
            to think of something either "--gorod" or "--grad" though I think the latter
            might be a post-period structure. Unfortunately, I can't name my household
            "Chernigov" as that's already taken. ;-)

            Has anyone here looked into theoretical household-naming in Russian? Does
            anyone have a household with a russian name? Are there any historical types of
            proper names for a group of people, "Oprichniki" notwithstanding? ;-) Or ideas
            on how to make up a plausibly historical city/town type name?

            Thanks,
            Sfandra

            ******************
            Posadnitsa Sfandra Dmitrieva Chernigova
            O.L., O.M., K.O.E., Haus VDK, East Kingdom
            http://sfandra.webs.com
            Never 'pearl' your butt.
            ******************

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Yevgeniya Pechenaya
            So upon further research... Лукоморье is a period word! http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9B%D1%83%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%BC%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%8C%D0%B5 I know
            Message 5 of 22 , Jun 15, 2011
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              So upon further research...
              Лукоморье is a period word!
              http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9B%D1%83%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%BC%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%8C%D0%B5

              I know wikipedia is not a good source.. I'll do more research when i get home,
              but I'm going to paraphrase rom the wikipedia article:
              Lukomorye according to Slavic mythology Lukomorye is a forbidden and warded
              place on the edge of the universe where grows the world tree, the axis of the
              world which can be used to access other worlds.

              I'm so looking into this when i get home! Ok this is my last email until i get
              home and look up more


              Lada

              Oooooh...
              SHINY!




              ________________________________
              From: Yevgeniya Pechenaya <ladie_lada@...>
              To: sig@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Wed, June 15, 2011 2:59:14 PM
              Subject: Re: [sig] Need a household name in Russian


              Лукоморье is actually pronounced (Lukomorye) i made a typo...

              Lada

              Oooooh...
              SHINY!

              ________________________________
              From: Yevgeniya Pechenaya <ladie_lada@...>
              To: sig@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Wed, June 15, 2011 2:53:37 PM
              Subject: Re: [sig] Need a household name in Russian

              Ok this is possibly a bit of a hodgepodge of info that I'm about to spew out.
              the --gorod" or "--grad" ending can be added on to pretty much any word or name
              to form and town name
              ex: Leningrad or Novgorod

              Group names can also come from things like professions, social status,
              geographic locations, tribal name or name of a person they associate with.
              ex: Oprichniki (social status)
              ex2: Казаки́ or Kosaks (i think that's how you spell it) (geographic and social
              status)

              You can also do something like Сфандровцы (Sfandrovtsy) as in those belonging to


              Sfanda
              Actually i think using your last name in this case will be more appropriate:
              You would go with Черниговцы (Chernigovtsy) I'm not sure if that would work
              since you can't do Chernigov

              If you were to turn your first name into a town it'd be something line Сфандров
              (Sfandrov)

              What about your heraldry and badges or anything else that you use? I seem to
              remember you have a patron saint right? Which one?

              How about Лукоморье (Lurkmorye)? potentially not very period but definitely very


              Russian.

              Lada

              Oooooh...
              SHINY!

              ________________________________
              From: Sfandra <seonaid13@...>
              To: "sig@yahoogroups.com" <sig@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Wed, June 15, 2011 2:05:07 PM
              Subject: [sig] Need a household name in Russian

              Hi there everyone!

              I could use a hand from those that actually speak Russian. See, in the
              household to which I belong, all peers are expected to form their own
              'sub-houses'. To give an example, Maitresse Irene LeNoir is a Peer of Haus
              VonDrakenklaue, and Mistress of Chateau LeNoir. So the heads of Haus VDK have
              been bugging me to officially name my household now that I too am a Peer of Haus


              VDK (and when they ALSO wear the Crowns of the Realm, you can't exactly blow
              them off!! :-D ) Sub-houses are usually named according to the Peer's (or
              squire's) persona.

              Truth is... I'm kinda stumped. My initial idea was pointlessly florid and
              horrible, and likely to have been awful in Russian anyway. So now I'm trying
              to think of something either "--gorod" or "--grad" though I think the latter
              might be a post-period structure. Unfortunately, I can't name my household
              "Chernigov" as that's already taken. ;-)

              Has anyone here looked into theoretical household-naming in Russian? Does
              anyone have a household with a russian name? Are there any historical types of
              proper names for a group of people, "Oprichniki" notwithstanding? ;-) Or ideas
              on how to make up a plausibly historical city/town type name?

              Thanks,
              Sfandra

              ******************
              Posadnitsa Sfandra Dmitrieva Chernigova
              O.L., O.M., K.O.E., Haus VDK, East Kingdom
              http://sfandra.webs.com
              Never 'pearl' your butt.
              ******************

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Owlharp@juno.com
              Way back when, in the dawn of time (AS8 or so), my friend Lady Vassilissa and I formed a Russian household and named it Vnuka Dazhboga - the grandchildren of
              Message 6 of 22 , Jun 15, 2011
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                Way back when, in the dawn of time (AS8 or so), my friend Lady Vassilissa
                and I formed a Russian household and named it "Vnuka Dazhboga" - the
                grandchildren of Dazhbog. It's one of the titles they give to Prince Igor
                in the "Tale of Igor's Campaign". I won't go bail for the linguistic
                correctness, since at that time, I had only had a year of college
                Russian. But it's a good name and the household lasted several years,
                though now it's pretty much in abeyance.

                Fevronia
                ____________________________________________________________
                Groupon.com Official Site
                1 huge daily deal on the best stuff to do in your city. Try it today!
                http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4df91d843352150b95fst02vuc
              • Lisa Kies
                Greetings from Sofya to Sfandra! The problem I see with using the term gorod or other town constructions, is that a town/fortress is not a household. The
                Message 7 of 22 , Jun 19, 2011
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                  Greetings from Sofya to Sfandra!

                  The problem I see with using the term "gorod" or other "town"
                  constructions, is that a town/fortress is not a household. The city of
                  Yaroslavl may have belonged to Yaroslav and his descendents, but it was full
                  of people who owed them little more than taxes and tribute. Most of the
                  people there would have been virtual strangers to their lord - not a
                  hand-picked circle of associates like our SCA households.

                  The closest literal translation of household would be "dom" meaning house,
                  home, household. This is the origin of one of our favorite texts, the
                  Domostroi. "Dom" refers to the lord/lady and their household dependents
                  including children, servants and slaves. So if you see your household as
                  being your SCA "family", then it's a good term to use.
                  A similar term would be "dvor" usually translated as "court", "courtyard",
                  "yard" or "estate". It refers to the palisaded enclosures that people built
                  in the cities to contain their homes and support structures, and by
                  extension, the people who live/work there. These people would include
                  cooks, leather workers, animal handlers, seamstresses, etc. so it would be a
                  nice term if you see your household as a collection of
                  workshops/artisans. On the other hand, it is the origin of the term
                  "dvorianin" which is usually translated as "courtier" or "servitor",
                  particularly in reference to the prince's "dvor" where the "dvoriane" make
                  up the lower ranks of the prince's retinue (lower than the boyars). Hence,
                  it's inclusion as an alternate title for "lord" on the official SCA
                  alternate titles list.

                  The Russian term for a princely or lordly retinue is "druzhina" from the
                  word for friend, "drug". These are the (relatively) close companions of a
                  prince or boyar. They gave true personal allegiance to their lord, although
                  they were free to leave his service at will. I think this term comes the
                  closest to the way most people set up their SCA households. It is
                  especially appropriate for the chivalry, since the druzhina made up the
                  heavy-cavalry core of a Russian military force, the closest Russian
                  equivalent of knights, but they also had peacetime administrative duties for
                  their lord.

                  And there are a couple of grammatical forms to use with these terms. You
                  can do "X of Y" as in "House of Sfandra" which would use genitive case and
                  be "Dom Sfandry". You can do "Sfandra's Court" which could be something
                  like "Sfandriiskii Dvor" (I'll need to check on the exact form of
                  Sfandra for this).

                  The patronymic (or rather, metronymic) form of Sfandra would be Sfandrin
                  (masc.) or Sfandrina (fem.) not Sfandrov, per Wickenden's grammar. Sfandrov
                  would be the patronymic form of Sfandr. I admit that Sfandrov and
                  Sfandrovskii sound better than Sfandrin and Sfrandrinskii, though.

                  At your service,

                  Sofya

                  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                  Lisa M. Kies, MD aka Sofya la Rus, OL, CW, CSH, druzhinnitsa Kramolnikova
                  Mason City, IA aka Shire of Heraldshill, Calontir
                  ___
                  http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser
                  {o,o}
                  "Si no necare, sana." "Mir znachit Pax Romanov"
                  (__(|
                  "Nasytivshimsya knizhnoj sladosti."
                  -^-^-`
                  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Tim Nalley
                  What about Hammered Goat (Forge and Brewery)? Its for my mancave.... dok
                  Message 8 of 22 , Jun 19, 2011
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                    What about Hammered Goat (Forge and Brewery)? Its for my mancave....
                    'dok
                  • Sfandra
                    Thanks Sofya!   I was, after a weekend of research, leaning towards more of Sfandra s Druzhina rather than any town-type structure.   I spent an
                    Message 9 of 22 , Jun 20, 2011
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                      Thanks Sofya!  


                      I was, after a weekend of research, leaning towards more of "Sfandra's Druzhina" rather than any town-type structure.   I spent an interesting 2 hours reading through the collected Precedents of the SCA College of Heraldry regarding households, and yes, they do prefer terminology that references a group of people, although they also allow structures like "House Of the Winged Goat" based on english Inn names (Which strikes me as an odd dichotomy, but OK, I didn't write the rules.....), plus a reread of Lay of Igor's Campaign and a few other tales.  I don't know that I'll ever register the household name -- I'm more interested in something period russian than SCA-registerable (given the college of heralds have yet to accept certain eastern european symbols and practices.... damn their anglo-centric hides ;-p  )


                      There was a passage in Vernadsky's "Kievan Rus" about the druzhina which really made me think it would be a good word to use.  Vernadsky implied that service in the druzhina was one of the few ways someone could improve their social station.  Given that my household would theoretically consist of apprentices, then that connotation of the word druzhina is appropriate.

                      I do very much like the ones you tossed out, and they're going on the list of options!

                      Thanks,
                      Sfandra

                      ******************
                      Posadnitsa Sfandra Dmitrieva Chernigova
                      O.L., O.M., K.O.E., Haus VDK, East Kingdom
                      http://sfandra.webs.com
                      Never 'pearl' your butt.
                      ******************


                      ________________________________
                      From: Lisa Kies <lkies319@...>
                      To: sig@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 1:39 PM
                      Subject: Re: [sig] Need a household name in Russian

                      Greetings from Sofya to Sfandra!

                      The problem I see with using the term "gorod" or other "town"
                      constructions, is that a town/fortress is not a household.  The city of
                      Yaroslavl may have belonged to Yaroslav and his descendents, but it was full
                      of people who owed them little more than taxes and tribute.  Most of the
                      people there would have been virtual strangers to their lord - not a
                      hand-picked circle of associates like our SCA households.

                      The closest literal translation of household would be "dom" meaning house,
                      home, household.  This is the origin of one of our favorite texts, the
                      Domostroi.  "Dom" refers to the lord/lady and their household dependents
                      including children, servants and slaves.  So if you see your household as
                      being your SCA "family", then it's a good term to use.
                      A similar term would be "dvor" usually translated as "court", "courtyard",
                      "yard" or "estate".  It refers to the palisaded enclosures that people built
                      in the cities to contain their homes and support structures, and by
                      extension, the people who live/work there.  These people would include
                      cooks, leather workers, animal handlers, seamstresses, etc. so it would be a
                      nice term if you see your household as a collection of
                      workshops/artisans.  On the other hand, it is the origin of the term
                      "dvorianin" which is usually translated as "courtier" or "servitor",
                      particularly in reference to the prince's "dvor" where the "dvoriane" make
                      up the lower ranks of the prince's retinue (lower than the boyars).  Hence,
                      it's inclusion as an alternate title for "lord" on the official SCA
                      alternate titles list.

                      The Russian term for a princely or lordly retinue is "druzhina" from the
                      word for friend, "drug".  These are the (relatively) close companions of a
                      prince or boyar.  They gave true personal allegiance to their lord, although
                      they were free to leave his service at will.  I think this term comes the
                      closest to the way most people set up their SCA households.  It is
                      especially appropriate for the chivalry, since the druzhina made up the
                      heavy-cavalry core of a Russian military force, the closest Russian
                      equivalent of knights, but they also had peacetime administrative duties for
                      their lord.

                      And there are a couple of grammatical forms to use with these terms.  You
                      can do "X of Y" as in "House of Sfandra" which would use genitive case and
                      be "Dom Sfandry".  You can do "Sfandra's Court" which could be something
                      like "Sfandriiskii Dvor" (I'll need to check on the exact form of
                      Sfandra for this).

                      The patronymic (or rather, metronymic) form of Sfandra would be Sfandrin
                      (masc.) or Sfandrina (fem.) not Sfandrov, per Wickenden's grammar.  Sfandrov
                      would be the patronymic form of Sfandr.  I admit that Sfandrov and
                      Sfandrovskii sound better than Sfandrin and Sfrandrinskii, though.

                      At your service,

                      Sofya

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Amy Tubbs
                      My husband also was looking into formally creating a household now that he is a knight. His name is Ilia Aleksandrovich. Would these be correct constructions
                      Message 10 of 22 , Jun 20, 2011
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                        My husband also was looking into formally creating a household now that he
                        is a knight. His name is Ilia Aleksandrovich. Would these be correct
                        constructions for a household name?

                        Dom Ilinii or Ilinii Dvor
                        Dom Aleksandrovii (or would it need to be Aleksandrovichii? Can you even do
                        that construction?)

                        -- Vitasha

                        On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 10:39 AM, Lisa Kies <lkies319@...> wrote:

                        > **
                        >
                        >
                        > Greetings from Sofya to Sfandra!
                        >
                        > The problem I see with using the term "gorod" or other "town"
                        > constructions, is that a town/fortress is not a household. The city of
                        > Yaroslavl may have belonged to Yaroslav and his descendents, but it was
                        > full
                        > of people who owed them little more than taxes and tribute. Most of the
                        > people there would have been virtual strangers to their lord - not a
                        > hand-picked circle of associates like our SCA households.
                        >
                        > The closest literal translation of household would be "dom" meaning house,
                        > home, household. This is the origin of one of our favorite texts, the
                        > Domostroi. "Dom" refers to the lord/lady and their household dependents
                        > including children, servants and slaves. So if you see your household as
                        > being your SCA "family", then it's a good term to use.
                        > A similar term would be "dvor" usually translated as "court", "courtyard",
                        > "yard" or "estate". It refers to the palisaded enclosures that people built
                        > in the cities to contain their homes and support structures, and by
                        > extension, the people who live/work there. These people would include
                        > cooks, leather workers, animal handlers, seamstresses, etc. so it would be
                        > a
                        > nice term if you see your household as a collection of
                        > workshops/artisans. On the other hand, it is the origin of the term
                        > "dvorianin" which is usually translated as "courtier" or "servitor",
                        > particularly in reference to the prince's "dvor" where the "dvoriane" make
                        > up the lower ranks of the prince's retinue (lower than the boyars). Hence,
                        > it's inclusion as an alternate title for "lord" on the official SCA
                        > alternate titles list.
                        >
                        > The Russian term for a princely or lordly retinue is "druzhina" from the
                        > word for friend, "drug". These are the (relatively) close companions of a
                        > prince or boyar. They gave true personal allegiance to their lord, although
                        > they were free to leave his service at will. I think this term comes the
                        > closest to the way most people set up their SCA households. It is
                        > especially appropriate for the chivalry, since the druzhina made up the
                        > heavy-cavalry core of a Russian military force, the closest Russian
                        > equivalent of knights, but they also had peacetime administrative duties
                        > for
                        > their lord.
                        >
                        > And there are a couple of grammatical forms to use with these terms. You
                        > can do "X of Y" as in "House of Sfandra" which would use genitive case and
                        > be "Dom Sfandry". You can do "Sfandra's Court" which could be something
                        > like "Sfandriiskii Dvor" (I'll need to check on the exact form of
                        > Sfandra for this).
                        >
                        > The patronymic (or rather, metronymic) form of Sfandra would be Sfandrin
                        > (masc.) or Sfandrina (fem.) not Sfandrov, per Wickenden's grammar. Sfandrov
                        > would be the patronymic form of Sfandr. I admit that Sfandrov and
                        > Sfandrovskii sound better than Sfandrin and Sfrandrinskii, though.
                        >
                        > At your service,
                        >
                        > Sofya
                        >
                        > ----------------------------------------------------------
                        >
                        > Lisa M. Kies, MD aka Sofya la Rus, OL, CW, CSH, druzhinnitsa Kramolnikova
                        > Mason City, IA aka Shire of Heraldshill, Calontir
                        > ___
                        > http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser
                        > {o,o}
                        > "Si no necare, sana." "Mir znachit Pax Romanov"
                        > (__(|
                        > "Nasytivshimsya knizhnoj sladosti."
                        > -^-^-`
                        > ----------------------------------------------------------
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >
                        >


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Sfandra
                        ...   So maybe Ilinii druzhina?  Is the -ichi suffix usable?  Or is that more of a tribal/ethnic designator?  I m thinking of terms like Radimichi ,
                        Message 11 of 22 , Jun 21, 2011
                        • 0 Attachment
                          As Sofya said:
                          > The Russian term for a princely or lordly retinue is "druzhina" from the
                          > word for friend, "drug". These are the (relatively) close companions of a
                          > prince or boyar. They gave true personal allegiance to their lord, although
                          > they were free to leave his service at will. I think this term comes the
                          > closest to the way most people set up their SCA households. It is
                          > especially appropriate for the chivalry, since the druzhina made up the
                          > heavy-cavalry core of a Russian military force, the closest Russian
                          > equivalent of knights, but they also had peacetime administrative duties
                          > for their lord.
                           
                          So maybe Ilinii druzhina? 

                          Is the -ichi suffix usable?  Or is that more of a tribal/ethnic designator?  I'm thinking of terms like "Radimichi", "Viatichi".  I don't know that I've ever seen that suffix used for anything other than rather broad tribal or 'clan' like designations.

                          Still pondering...
                          --Sfandra


                          ******************
                          Posadnitsa Sfandra Dmitrieva Chernigova
                          O.L., O.M., K.O.E., Haus VDK, East Kingdom
                          http://sfandra.webs.com
                          Never 'pearl' your butt.
                          ******************


                          ________________________________
                          From: Amy Tubbs <ivanova.doch@...>


                          My husband also was looking into formally creating a household now that he
                          is a knight.  His name is Ilia Aleksandrovich.  Would these be correct
                          constructions for a household name?

                          Dom Ilinii or Ilinii Dvor
                          Dom Aleksandrovii (or would it need to be Aleksandrovichii?  Can you even do
                          that construction?)

                          -- Vitasha

                          On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 10:39 AM, Lisa Kies <lkies319@...> wrote:

                          > **
                          >
                          >
                          > Greetings from Sofya to Sfandra!
                          SNIP

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Liudmila
                          Sfandrina Druzhina sort of rhymes, and does not sound bad at all... Liudmila, the absent ... From: Sfandra To: sig@yahoogroups.com
                          Message 12 of 22 , Jun 23, 2011
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Sfandrina Druzhina sort of rhymes, and does not sound bad at all...

                            Liudmila, the absent








                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: Sfandra <seonaid13@...>
                            To: sig@yahoogroups.com <sig@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Mon, Jun 20, 2011 5:40 am
                            Subject: Re: [sig] Need a household name in Russian





                            Thanks Sofya!

                            I was, after a weekend of research, leaning towards more of "Sfandra's Druzhina" rather than any town-type structure. I spent an interesting 2 hours reading through the collected Precedents of the SCA College of Heraldry regarding households, and yes, they do prefer terminology that references a group of people, although they also allow structures like "House Of the Winged Goat" based on english Inn names (Which strikes me as an odd dichotomy, but OK, I didn't write the rules.....), plus a reread of Lay of Igor's Campaign and a few other tales. I don't know that I'll ever register the household name -- I'm more interested in something period russian than SCA-registerable (given the college of heralds have yet to accept certain eastern european symbols and practices.... damn their anglo-centric hides ;-p )

                            There was a passage in Vernadsky's "Kievan Rus" about the druzhina which really made me think it would be a good word to use. Vernadsky implied that service in the druzhina was one of the few ways someone could improve their social station. Given that my household would theoretically consist of apprentices, then that connotation of the word druzhina is appropriate.

                            I do very much like the ones you tossed out, and they're going on the list of options!

                            Thanks,
                            Sfandra

                            ******************
                            Posadnitsa Sfandra Dmitrieva Chernigova
                            O.L., O.M., K.O.E., Haus VDK, East Kingdom
                            http://sfandra.webs.com
                            Never 'pearl' your butt.
                            ******************

                            ________________________________
                            From: Lisa Kies <lkies319@...>
                            To: sig@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 1:39 PM
                            Subject: Re: [sig] Need a household name in Russian

                            Greetings from Sofya to Sfandra!

                            The problem I see with using the term "gorod" or other "town"
                            constructions, is that a town/fortress is not a household. The city of
                            Yaroslavl may have belonged to Yaroslav and his descendents, but it was full
                            of people who owed them little more than taxes and tribute. Most of the
                            people there would have been virtual strangers to their lord - not a
                            hand-picked circle of associates like our SCA households.

                            The closest literal translation of household would be "dom" meaning house,
                            home, household. This is the origin of one of our favorite texts, the
                            Domostroi. "Dom" refers to the lord/lady and their household dependents
                            including children, servants and slaves. So if you see your household as
                            being your SCA "family", then it's a good term to use.
                            A similar term would be "dvor" usually translated as "court", "courtyard",
                            "yard" or "estate". It refers to the palisaded enclosures that people built
                            in the cities to contain their homes and support structures, and by
                            extension, the people who live/work there. These people would include
                            cooks, leather workers, animal handlers, seamstresses, etc. so it would be a
                            nice term if you see your household as a collection of
                            workshops/artisans. On the other hand, it is the origin of the term
                            "dvorianin" which is usually translated as "courtier" or "servitor",
                            particularly in reference to the prince's "dvor" where the "dvoriane" make
                            up the lower ranks of the prince's retinue (lower than the boyars). Hence,
                            it's inclusion as an alternate title for "lord" on the official SCA
                            alternate titles list.

                            The Russian term for a princely or lordly retinue is "druzhina" from the
                            word for friend, "drug". These are the (relatively) close companions of a
                            prince or boyar. They gave true personal allegiance to their lord, although
                            they were free to leave his service at will. I think this term comes the
                            closest to the way most people set up their SCA households. It is
                            especially appropriate for the chivalry, since the druzhina made up the
                            heavy-cavalry core of a Russian military force, the closest Russian
                            equivalent of knights, but they also had peacetime administrative duties for
                            their lord.

                            And there are a couple of grammatical forms to use with these terms. You
                            can do "X of Y" as in "House of Sfandra" which would use genitive case and
                            be "Dom Sfandry". You can do "Sfandra's Court" which could be something
                            like "Sfandriiskii Dvor" (I'll need to check on the exact form of
                            Sfandra for this).

                            The patronymic (or rather, metronymic) form of Sfandra would be Sfandrin
                            (masc.) or Sfandrina (fem.) not Sfandrov, per Wickenden's grammar. Sfandrov
                            would be the patronymic form of Sfandr. I admit that Sfandrov and
                            Sfandrovskii sound better than Sfandrin and Sfrandrinskii, though.

                            At your service,

                            Sofya

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]









                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Liudmila
                            Did you already ask me and I missed it? Bad laurel... So: Il in Dom or Il in Dvor, either way. I think that podvor e was often used in this context, and not
                            Message 13 of 22 , Jun 23, 2011
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Did you already ask me and I missed it? Bad laurel... So:
                              Il'in Dom or Il'in Dvor, either way. I think that "podvor'e" was often used in this context, and not "dvor," but have to look it up. In that case, Il'ino Podvor'e.
                              Also: Aleksandrovichev Dom or Dvor.

                              Liudmila









                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: Amy Tubbs <ivanova.doch@...>
                              To: sig@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Mon, Jun 20, 2011 7:08 pm
                              Subject: Re: [sig] Need a household name in Russian


                              My husband also was looking into formally creating a household now that he
                              is a knight. His name is Ilia Aleksandrovich. Would these be correct
                              constructions for a household name?

                              Dom Ilinii or Ilinii Dvor
                              Dom Aleksandrovii (or would it need to be Aleksandrovichii? Can you even do
                              that construction?)

                              -- Vitasha






                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Patty
                              I really, really like Sfandrina Druzhina! Cheers, Lady Patricia of Trakai ... From: Liudmila To: sig@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, Jun 24,
                              Message 14 of 22 , Jun 24, 2011
                              • 0 Attachment
                                I really, really like Sfandrina Druzhina!

                                Cheers,
                                Lady Patricia of Trakai










                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: Liudmila <LiudmilaV@...>
                                To: sig@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Fri, Jun 24, 2011 2:03 am
                                Subject: Re: [sig] Need a household name in Russian




                                Sfandrina Druzhina sort of rhymes, and does not sound bad at all...



                                Liudmila, the absent

















                                -----Original Message-----

                                From: Sfandra <seonaid13@...>

                                To: sig@yahoogroups.com <sig@yahoogroups.com>

                                Sent: Mon, Jun 20, 2011 5:40 am

                                Subject: Re: [sig] Need a household name in Russian











                                Thanks Sofya!



                                I was, after a weekend of research, leaning towards more of "Sfandra's Druzhina"

                                rather than any town-type structure. I spent an interesting 2 hours reading

                                through the collected Precedents of the SCA College of Heraldry regarding

                                households, and yes, they do prefer terminology that references a group of

                                people, although they also allow structures like "House Of the Winged Goat"

                                based on english Inn names (Which strikes me as an odd dichotomy, but OK, I

                                didn't write the rules.....), plus a reread of Lay of Igor's Campaign and a few

                                other tales. I don't know that I'll ever register the household name -- I'm

                                more interested in something period russian than SCA-registerable (given the

                                college of heralds have yet to accept certain eastern european symbols and

                                practices.... damn their anglo-centric hides ;-p )



                                There was a passage in Vernadsky's "Kievan Rus" about the druzhina which really

                                made me think it would be a good word to use. Vernadsky implied that service in

                                the druzhina was one of the few ways someone could improve their social station.

                                Given that my household would theoretically consist of apprentices, then that

                                connotation of the word druzhina is appropriate.



                                I do very much like the ones you tossed out, and they're going on the list of

                                options!



                                Thanks,

                                Sfandra



                                ******************

                                Posadnitsa Sfandra Dmitrieva Chernigova

                                O.L., O.M., K.O.E., Haus VDK, East Kingdom

                                http://sfandra.webs.com

                                Never 'pearl' your butt.

                                ******************



                                ________________________________

                                From: Lisa Kies <lkies319@...>

                                To: sig@yahoogroups.com

                                Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 1:39 PM

                                Subject: Re: [sig] Need a household name in Russian



                                Greetings from Sofya to Sfandra!



                                The problem I see with using the term "gorod" or other "town"

                                constructions, is that a town/fortress is not a household. The city of

                                Yaroslavl may have belonged to Yaroslav and his descendents, but it was full

                                of people who owed them little more than taxes and tribute. Most of the

                                people there would have been virtual strangers to their lord - not a

                                hand-picked circle of associates like our SCA households.



                                The closest literal translation of household would be "dom" meaning house,

                                home, household. This is the origin of one of our favorite texts, the

                                Domostroi. "Dom" refers to the lord/lady and their household dependents

                                including children, servants and slaves. So if you see your household as

                                being your SCA "family", then it's a good term to use.

                                A similar term would be "dvor" usually translated as "court", "courtyard",

                                "yard" or "estate". It refers to the palisaded enclosures that people built

                                in the cities to contain their homes and support structures, and by

                                extension, the people who live/work there. These people would include

                                cooks, leather workers, animal handlers, seamstresses, etc. so it would be a

                                nice term if you see your household as a collection of

                                workshops/artisans. On the other hand, it is the origin of the term

                                "dvorianin" which is usually translated as "courtier" or "servitor",

                                particularly in reference to the prince's "dvor" where the "dvoriane" make

                                up the lower ranks of the prince's retinue (lower than the boyars). Hence,

                                it's inclusion as an alternate title for "lord" on the official SCA

                                alternate titles list.



                                The Russian term for a princely or lordly retinue is "druzhina" from the

                                word for friend, "drug". These are the (relatively) close companions of a

                                prince or boyar. They gave true personal allegiance to their lord, although

                                they were free to leave his service at will. I think this term comes the

                                closest to the way most people set up their SCA households. It is

                                especially appropriate for the chivalry, since the druzhina made up the

                                heavy-cavalry core of a Russian military force, the closest Russian

                                equivalent of knights, but they also had peacetime administrative duties for

                                their lord.



                                And there are a couple of grammatical forms to use with these terms. You

                                can do "X of Y" as in "House of Sfandra" which would use genitive case and

                                be "Dom Sfandry". You can do "Sfandra's Court" which could be something

                                like "Sfandriiskii Dvor" (I'll need to check on the exact form of

                                Sfandra for this).



                                The patronymic (or rather, metronymic) form of Sfandra would be Sfandrin

                                (masc.) or Sfandrina (fem.) not Sfandrov, per Wickenden's grammar. Sfandrov

                                would be the patronymic form of Sfandr. I admit that Sfandrov and

                                Sfandrovskii sound better than Sfandrin and Sfrandrinskii, though.



                                At your service,



                                Sofya



                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



















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                              • Lisa Kies
                                Greetings from Sofya! ... I can find only a limited number of period examples of podvor e in Sreznevskii s Dictionary. It s not a term I m familiar with.
                                Message 15 of 22 , Jun 24, 2011
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Greetings from Sofya!

                                  On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 1:07 AM, Liudmila <LiudmilaV@...> wrote:

                                  >
                                  > I think that "podvor'e" was often used in this context, and not "dvor,"
                                  > but have to look it up. In that case, Il'ino Podvor'e.
                                  >
                                  I can find only a limited number of period examples of podvor'e in
                                  Sreznevskii's Dictionary. It's not a term I'm familiar with. Let's see,
                                  Sreznevskii defines it as "a house with court (dvor) and courtyard
                                  structures, country estate, residence". Ozhigov defines it as an inn/hostel
                                  (meaning 1), or a type of hotel intended for clerics (meaning 2), or a court
                                  and vegetable garden on the property of a rural home. So that works.

                                  On the other hand, Sreznevskii has dozens of examples of dvor' from period
                                  documents. Along with many terms (such as dvorianin, dvornik, dvornyi,
                                  dvorcheskii, and podvor'e, itself) derived from it.

                                  On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 1:07 AM, Liudmila <LiudmilaV@...> wrote:

                                  >
                                  > Did you already ask me and I missed it? Bad laurel... So:
                                  > Il'in Dom or Il'in Dvor, either way. I think that "podvor'e" was often used
                                  > in this context, and not "dvor," but have to look it up. In that case,
                                  > Il'ino Podvor'e.
                                  > Also: Aleksandrovichev Dom or Dvor.
                                  >

                                  I would have thought that genitive case would be used here, rather than a
                                  patronymic form (which is related to genitive case, but not the same). But
                                  I'm not a native Russian speaker, of course.

                                  Genitive case forms:
                                  Dom/Dvor Il'i (I'm used to putting the owner's name last but, of course,
                                  that's flexible)
                                  Dom/Dvor Aleksandrovicha (of the son of Aleksander) or Aleksandrovichov
                                  (plural - of the sons of Aleksander, the Aleksandrovichi)

                                  Adjectival forms:
                                  Il'inskii Dom/Dvor (Il'inskaia Druzhina)
                                  Aleksandrovskii Dom/Dvor (Aleksandrovskaia Druzhina)

                                  At your service,

                                  Sofya

                                  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                                  Lisa M. Kies, MD aka Sofya la Rus, OL, CW, CSH, druzhinnitsa Kramolnikova
                                  Mason City, IA aka Shire of Heraldshill, Calontir
                                  ___
                                  http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser
                                  {o,o}
                                  "Si no necare, sana." "Mir znachit Pax Romanov"
                                  (__(|
                                  "Nasytivshimsya knizhnoj sladosti."
                                  -^-^-`
                                  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Lisa Kies
                                  Sounds cute, like the title of an 80s music group... I still wonder about using the genitive case here instead of a patronymic form, but it wouldn t have the
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Jun 24, 2011
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Sounds cute, like the title of an 80s music group...

                                    I still wonder about using the genitive case here instead of a patronymic
                                    form, but it wouldn't have the same ring to it - Druzhina Sfandrina vs.
                                    Druzhina Sfandri

                                    Sofya

                                    On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 1:03 AM, Liudmila <LiudmilaV@...> wrote:

                                    >
                                    > Sfandrina Druzhina sort of rhymes, and does not sound bad at all...
                                    >
                                    > Liudmila, the absent
                                    >


                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Lisa Kies
                                    Greetings from Sofya! ... It looks like the adjectival form of Sfandra would actually be Sfandrinskii/aia so: Sfandrinskii Dvor/Dom and Sfandrinskaia Druzhina
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Jun 24, 2011
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Greetings from Sofya!

                                      On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 12:39 PM, Lisa Kies <lkies319@...> wrote:

                                      >
                                      > You can do "Sfandra's Court" which could be something like "Sfandriiskii
                                      > Dvor" (I'll need to check on the exact form of Sfandra for this).
                                      >

                                      It looks like the adjectival form of Sfandra would actually be
                                      Sfandrinskii/aia so:

                                      Sfandrinskii Dvor/Dom and
                                      Sfandrinskaia Druzhina

                                      At your service,

                                      Sofya

                                      ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                                      Lisa M. Kies, MD aka Sofya la Rus, OL, CW, CSH, druzhinnitsa Kramolnikova
                                      Mason City, IA aka Shire of Heraldshill, Calontir
                                      ___
                                      http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser
                                      {o,o}
                                      "Si no necare, sana." "Mir znachit Pax Romanov"
                                      (__(|
                                      "Nasytivshimsya knizhnoj sladosti."
                                      -^-^-`
                                      ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Amy Tubbs
                                      No, I only just thought of asking when I saw this post. --Vitasha ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      Message 18 of 22 , Jun 24, 2011
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        No, I only just thought of asking when I saw this post.
                                        --Vitasha


                                        On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 11:07 PM, Liudmila <LiudmilaV@...> wrote:

                                        > **
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Did you already ask me and I missed it? Bad laurel... So:
                                        > Il'in Dom or Il'in Dvor, either way. I think that "podvor'e" was often used
                                        > in this context, and not "dvor," but have to look it up. In that case,
                                        > Il'ino Podvor'e.
                                        > Also: Aleksandrovichev Dom or Dvor.
                                        >
                                        > Liudmila
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > -----Original Message-----
                                        > From: Amy Tubbs <ivanova.doch@...>
                                        > To: sig@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Sent: Mon, Jun 20, 2011 7:08 pm
                                        > Subject: Re: [sig] Need a household name in Russian
                                        >
                                        > My husband also was looking into formally creating a household now that he
                                        > is a knight. His name is Ilia Aleksandrovich. Would these be correct
                                        > constructions for a household name?
                                        >
                                        > Dom Ilinii or Ilinii Dvor
                                        > Dom Aleksandrovii (or would it need to be Aleksandrovichii? Can you even do
                                        > that construction?)
                                        >
                                        > -- Vitasha
                                        >
                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >


                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • Howard Rachel
                                        Pushkarev s Dictionary of Russian Historical Terms has: *Podvorie* - a DVOR (household) in general, esp. a city household that belonged to an outside owner
                                        Message 19 of 22 , Jun 25, 2011
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Pushkarev's Dictionary of Russian Historical Terms has:

                                          *Podvorie* - "a DVOR (household) in general, esp. a city household that
                                          belonged to an outside owner (like a monsatary or rich land owner)"

                                          *podvornik* - "a person who lived and worked in another's household"

                                          *dvor* - "Household; homestead; yard; court. In the chronicles dvor
                                          sometimes meant the prince's military service men collectively."

                                          I believe this differentiates dvor and podvorie significantly, and supports
                                          dvor as better in the context of an SCA household.

                                          Kazimir, Meridies


                                          On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 10:19 PM, Lisa Kies <lkies319@...> wrote:

                                          > **
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Greetings from Sofya!
                                          >
                                          > On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 1:07 AM, Liudmila <LiudmilaV@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > >
                                          > > I think that "podvor'e" was often used in this context, and not "dvor,"
                                          > > but have to look it up. In that case, Il'ino Podvor'e.
                                          > >
                                          > I can find only a limited number of period examples of podvor'e in
                                          > Sreznevskii's Dictionary. It's not a term I'm familiar with. Let's see,
                                          > Sreznevskii defines it as "a house with court (dvor) and courtyard
                                          > structures, country estate, residence". Ozhigov defines it as an inn/hostel
                                          > (meaning 1), or a type of hotel intended for clerics (meaning 2), or a
                                          > court
                                          > and vegetable garden on the property of a rural home. So that works.
                                          >
                                          > On the other hand, Sreznevskii has dozens of examples of dvor' from period
                                          > documents. Along with many terms (such as dvorianin, dvornik, dvornyi,
                                          > dvorcheskii, and podvor'e, itself) derived from it.
                                          >
                                          > On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 1:07 AM, Liudmila <LiudmilaV@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > >
                                          > > Did you already ask me and I missed it? Bad laurel... So:
                                          > > Il'in Dom or Il'in Dvor, either way. I think that "podvor'e" was often
                                          > used
                                          > > in this context, and not "dvor," but have to look it up. In that case,
                                          > > Il'ino Podvor'e.
                                          > > Also: Aleksandrovichev Dom or Dvor.
                                          > >
                                          >
                                          > I would have thought that genitive case would be used here, rather than a
                                          > patronymic form (which is related to genitive case, but not the same). But
                                          > I'm not a native Russian speaker, of course.
                                          >
                                          > Genitive case forms:
                                          > Dom/Dvor Il'i (I'm used to putting the owner's name last but, of course,
                                          > that's flexible)
                                          > Dom/Dvor Aleksandrovicha (of the son of Aleksander) or Aleksandrovichov
                                          > (plural - of the sons of Aleksander, the Aleksandrovichi)
                                          >
                                          > Adjectival forms:
                                          > Il'inskii Dom/Dvor (Il'inskaia Druzhina)
                                          > Aleksandrovskii Dom/Dvor (Aleksandrovskaia Druzhina)
                                          >
                                          > At your service,
                                          >
                                          > Sofya
                                          >
                                          > ----------------------------------------------------------
                                          >
                                          > Lisa M. Kies, MD aka Sofya la Rus, OL, CW, CSH, druzhinnitsa Kramolnikova
                                          > Mason City, IA aka Shire of Heraldshill, Calontir
                                          > ___
                                          > http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser
                                          > {o,o}
                                          > "Si no necare, sana." "Mir znachit Pax Romanov"
                                          > (__(|
                                          > "Nasytivshimsya knizhnoj sladosti."
                                          > -^-^-`
                                          > ----------------------------------------------------------
                                          >
                                          >
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                                        • Sfandra
                                          Yeah, given rather sharp wit of my housemates, anything that rhymes is asking for trouble....   As it is, they already tend to sing the following around me:
                                          Message 20 of 22 , Jun 25, 2011
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                                            Yeah, given rather sharp wit of my housemates, anything that rhymes is asking for trouble....
                                             
                                            As it is, they already tend to sing the following around me:
                                            "Look at me, I'm Sfandra D..."

                                            I like 'dvor'.   Would it be Sfandriskii Dvor?

                                            --Sfandra
                                             

                                            ******************

                                            From: Lisa Kies <lkies319@...>
                                            To: sig@yahoogroups.com
                                            Sent: Friday, June 24, 2011 10:27 PM
                                            Subject: Re: [sig] Need a household name in Russian

                                            Sounds cute, like the title of an 80s music group...

                                            I still wonder about using the genitive case here instead of a patronymic
                                            form, but it wouldn't have the same ring to it - Druzhina Sfandrina vs.
                                            Druzhina Sfandri

                                            Sofya

                                            On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 1:03 AM, Liudmila <LiudmilaV@...> wrote:

                                            >
                                            >  Sfandrina Druzhina sort of rhymes, and does not sound bad at all...
                                            >
                                            > Liudmila, the absent
                                            >


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                                          • Sfandra
                                            Wow, helps if I read ALL the emails before replying!   I really like Sfandrinskaia Druzhina...  And it has the bonus of probably being unpronounceable to
                                            Message 21 of 22 , Jun 25, 2011
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                                              Wow, helps if I read ALL the emails before replying!
                                               
                                              I really like Sfandrinskaia Druzhina...  And it has the bonus of probably being unpronounceable to everyone in my household.
                                               
                                              --Sfandra

                                              ******************


                                              From: Sfandra <seonaid13@...>
                                              To: "sig@yahoogroups.com" <sig@yahoogroups.com>
                                              Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2011 8:04 PM
                                              Subject: Re: [sig] Need a household name in Russian

                                              Yeah, given rather sharp wit of my housemates, anything that rhymes is asking for trouble....
                                               
                                              As it is, they already tend to sing the following around me:
                                              "Look at me, I'm Sfandra D..."

                                              I like 'dvor'.   Would it be Sfandriskii Dvor?

                                              --Sfandra
                                               

                                              ******************

                                              From: Lisa Kies <lkies319@...>
                                              To: sig@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: Friday, June 24, 2011 10:27 PM
                                              Subject: Re: [sig] Need a household name in Russian

                                              Sounds cute, like the title of an 80s music group...

                                              I still wonder about using the genitive case here instead of a patronymic
                                              form, but it wouldn't have the same ring to it - Druzhina Sfandrina vs.
                                              Druzhina Sfandri

                                              Sofya

                                              On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 1:03 AM, Liudmila <LiudmilaV@...> wrote:

                                              >
                                              >  Sfandrina Druzhina sort of rhymes, and does not sound bad at all...
                                              >
                                              > Liudmila, the absent
                                              >


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                                            • Lisa Kies
                                              Greetings from Sofya! ... I didn t forget about you, Dok. I just needed some time to devote to the problem. The problem is that hammered doesn t have the
                                              Message 22 of 22 , Jun 29, 2011
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                                                Greetings from Sofya!

                                                On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 2:44 PM, Tim Nalley <mordakus@...> wrote:

                                                > What about Hammered Goat (Forge and Brewery)? Its for my mancave....
                                                > 'dok


                                                I didn't forget about you, 'Dok. I just needed some time to devote to the
                                                problem. The problem is that "hammered" doesn't have the same double
                                                meaning in Russian as it does in English. No matter what angle I go at it,
                                                no matter what synonyms I pursue, I'm just not finding a very good Russian
                                                translation.

                                                Goat = kozyol (male)
                                                Drunken = p'yanyj, napivshijsya
                                                Smashed = vdryzg p'yanyj or vdrebezgi p'yanyj � blind / dead / stiff drunk
                                                Hammer = molot;
                                                To hammer = bit', udaryat';
                                                hammered/forged = kovanyj
                                                *to forge = kovat', vykovyvat'*, chekanit';
                                                a smithy = kuznitsa, adj. kuznechnyj;
                                                beaten/broken down = razbityj

                                                The best I can come up with is the alliterative "Kuznechnyi Kozyol" which
                                                means "smithy goat" but doesn't include the brewery angle, unless you figure
                                                that a goat that will eat anything will likely drink anything also. Same
                                                problem with Kovanyj Kozyol - hammered/forged goat.

                                                ;-)

                                                Sofya

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                                                Lisa M. Kies, MD aka Sofya la Rus, OL, CW, CSH, druzhinnitsa Kramolnikova
                                                Mason City, IA aka Shire of Heraldshill, Calontir
                                                ___
                                                http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser
                                                {o,o}
                                                "Si no necare, sana." "Mir znachit Pax Romanov"
                                                (__(|
                                                "Nasytivshimsya knizhnoj sladosti."
                                                -^-^-`
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