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Re: Linens (and things)

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  • meischadyer
    We are trying for fairly early Rus. My husband has a specific time period in mind (9th or 10th century, I think). I have a very nice (large) piece of white
    Message 1 of 7 , May 25, 2011
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      We are trying for fairly early Rus. My husband has a specific time period in mind (9th or 10th century, I think). I have a very nice (large) piece of white linen with basically a navy blue pin strip actually woven into it (not stamped on). I know that in some countries the colored weave thing was done, but I'm concerned that pin-striping is such a 20th century thing that it would stick out sorely. I haven't found a lot of evidence showing that type of stripe.
      Thanks for the info!
      Meischa

      --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, Noora Salminen <harmaa.rakka@...> wrote:
      >
      > Linen is very hard to dye permanently with plant colours, pretty much the
      > only thing it takes well is indigo to my best knowledge, so it would appear
      > logical to have mostly uniformly dyed fabrics of linen, so that you can
      > re-dye it if needed... But I've seen some really nice small pieces done
      > using the natural variance of colour in the linen thread to make a weft
      > striped aprons and such manageable sized stuff.
      > What period and place do you do, generally?
      >
      > On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 8:15 PM, meischadyer <meischadyer@...> wrote:
      >
      > >
      > >
      > > So, I've played off and on for years, but I'm just getting back into the
      > > swing of things, and in doing so have become much more serious. Therefore,
      > > I'm doffing garb of the polyester type and trying to use more period
      > > fabrics, including linen. My question is, what documentation does anyone
      > > have on hand on patters in linen, specifically stripes. Was it ever woven
      > > that way? So far the only place I've seen stripes is in pants on eBay (!)
      > > but nothing in any source that even seems credible.
      > > Thanks,
      > > Meischa
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      > --
      > rakka@ircnet
      >
      > "The midnight leather of my body suit that enclosed my body was as cliched
      > as it sounded."
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • Quokkaqueen
      ... Would Viking-esque textiles help? There are pinstripe and Tattersall-plaid-like linens from Hedeby and Birka. The Birka textile IDed as FH 7 in
      Message 2 of 7 , May 25, 2011
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        > We are trying for fairly early Rus. My husband has a specific time period in mind (9th or 10th century, I think). I have a very nice (large) piece of white linen with basically a navy blue pin strip actually woven into it (not stamped on).
        <<snip>>

        Would Viking-esque textiles help?

        There are pinstripe and Tattersall-plaid-like linens from Hedeby and Birka.

        The Birka textile IDed as FH 7 in the book Birka III is a Tatterall plaid is blue with reddish/whitish windowpaning.
        See: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NorsefolkArchives/message/4217

        And there are dyed linen finds from the Hedeby settlement which have Tattersall-like-plaids and stripes, see Hilde Thumen's information about them here:
        http://www.pvv.ntnu.no/~hmg/lrp/kostyme/viking/v-k-underkjole.html
        (starting at "the settlement")

        There are other striped wools that I can think of, but linens seem trickier?

        ~Asfridhr
      • Noora Salminen
        Early Rus is easy in the respect that there s a wealth of different cultures there, before they sort of melt together. If you re high class/nordic (not sure
        Message 3 of 7 , May 25, 2011
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          Early Rus is easy in the respect that there's a wealth of different cultures
          there, before they sort of melt together. If you're high class/nordic (not
          sure what the terms are in English, sorry) then Birka in particular would be
          a good source. I don't know if there are many finds of that era on slavic
          tribes' costumes. And then of course there's everything from Bysantium and
          Miklagard. Or, as an Estonian friend puts it "some bysantine merchant"
          theory explains a lot of interesting things that aren't strictly based on
          grave findings of Iron age.
          I didn't know about the Birka striped linen. It's a bit outside of my own
          interest, the only Birka thing I have is the cap end for a Rus trader's hat.

          - Rakka

          On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 4:07 AM, Quokkaqueen <quokkaqueen@...>wrote:

          >
          >
          > > We are trying for fairly early Rus. My husband has a specific time period
          > in mind (9th or 10th century, I think). I have a very nice (large) piece of
          > white linen with basically a navy blue pin strip actually woven into it (not
          > stamped on).
          > <<snip>>
          >
          > Would Viking-esque textiles help?
          >
          > There are pinstripe and Tattersall-plaid-like linens from Hedeby and Birka.
          >
          >
          > The Birka textile IDed as FH 7 in the book Birka III is a Tatterall plaid
          > is blue with reddish/whitish windowpaning.
          > See: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NorsefolkArchives/message/4217
          >
          > And there are dyed linen finds from the Hedeby settlement which have
          > Tattersall-like-plaids and stripes, see Hilde Thumen's information about
          > them here:
          > http://www.pvv.ntnu.no/~hmg/lrp/kostyme/viking/v-k-underkjole.html
          > (starting at "the settlement")
          >
          > There are other striped wools that I can think of, but linens seem
          > trickier?
          >
          > ~Asfridhr
          >
          >
          >



          --
          rakka@ircnet

          "The midnight leather of my body suit that enclosed my body was as cliched
          as it sounded."


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Quokkaqueen
          You could probably argue for striped linens being an imported textile via the Islamic trade routes. Certainly, it seems to show up (from what little I know)
          Message 4 of 7 , May 26, 2011
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            You could probably argue for striped linens being an imported textile via the Islamic trade routes. Certainly, it seems to show up (from what little I know) more often in Islamic contexts, like from Fustat in Egypt, than Northern European.

            eg.
            http://www.touregypt.net/historicalessays/textilef1.htm
            http://home.earthlink.net/~lilinah/Textiles/MEtextiles.html (12th c.)
            And footnote number 43 here: http://snipurl.com/27xizs

            If you had it, you'd probably want to flaunt your wealth with your fancy foreign dyed linens. :)

            ~Asfridhr

            --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, Noora Salminen <harmaa.rakka@...> wrote:
            Or, as an Estonian friend puts it "some bysantine merchant"
            > theory explains a lot of interesting things that aren't strictly based on
            > grave findings of Iron age.
          • Lisa Kies
            Greetings from Sofya to Meischa Stripes, per se, should not be thought exotic for any period of Rus. It is relatively difficult to dye linen, true, but the
            Message 5 of 7 , May 26, 2011
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              Greetings from Sofya to Meischa

              Stripes, per se, should not be thought exotic for any period of Rus. It is
              relatively difficult to dye linen, true, but the Russians have long been
              expert in working with linen and they did dye linen, and weave it in
              patterns, including stripes. That being said, simple white bleached and
              unbleached linen was by far the most common linen fabric - being the
              material of choice for undershirts, dress shirts, and underwear, and also
              used to make bags, wagon covers, sails, etc.

              Whether the particular striped fabric you have is appropriate is hard to say
              without seeing it. The suggestions to compare it to finds from Birka and
              the Middle East are good - they will help train your eye to what would be
              appropriate to the period.

              Not very much linen is found in archeological excavations in Rus because the
              soil conditions are particularly unfriendly to plant fibers. In fact, there
              was a type of fabric that was called "openwork" by early researchers who
              thought it was some sort of fancy open-work weave. The current theory is
              that it was actually woven in a pattern where some of the colors were woolen
              threads and some were linen, and the linen threads rotted away leaving the
              open spaces.

              Here's what I know about fabrics:
              http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser/Russia/KRCfabric.html

              And dyes/colors:
              http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser/Russia/KRCfabricdye.html

              And here are some notes from "Textiles of Novgorod" although I didn't take
              any notes from the section on striped fabrics - there wasn't much there:
              http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser/Russia/nahlik.html
              At your service,
              Sofya

              ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

              Lisa M. Kies, MD aka Sofya la Rus, OL, CW, CSH, druzhinnitsa Kramolnikova
              Mason City, IA aka Shire of Heraldshill, Calontir
              ___
              http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser
              {o,o}
              "Si no necare, sana." "Mir znachit Pax Romanov"
              (__(|
              "Nasytivshimsya knizhnoj sladosti."
              -^-^-`
              ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

              On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 6:51 PM, meischadyer <meischadyer@...> wrote:

              >
              >
              > We are trying for fairly early Rus. My husband has a specific time period
              > in mind (9th or 10th century, I think). I have a very nice (large) piece of
              > white linen with basically a navy blue pin strip actually woven into it (not
              > stamped on). I know that in some countries the colored weave thing was done,
              > but I'm concerned that pin-striping is such a 20th century thing that it
              > would stick out sorely. I haven't found a lot of evidence showing that type
              > of stripe.
              > Thanks for the info!
              > Meischa
              >
              >
              > --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, Noora Salminen <harmaa.rakka@...> wrote:
              > >
              > > Linen is very hard to dye permanently with plant colours, pretty much the
              > > only thing it takes well is indigo to my best knowledge, so it would
              > appear
              > > logical to have mostly uniformly dyed fabrics of linen, so that you can
              > > re-dye it if needed... But I've seen some really nice small pieces done
              > > using the natural variance of colour in the linen thread to make a weft
              > > striped aprons and such manageable sized stuff.
              > > What period and place do you do, generally?
              > >
              > > On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 8:15 PM, meischadyer <meischadyer@...> wrote:
              > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > So, I've played off and on for years, but I'm just getting back into
              > the
              > > > swing of things, and in doing so have become much more serious.
              > Therefore,
              > > > I'm doffing garb of the polyester type and trying to use more period
              > > > fabrics, including linen. My question is, what documentation does
              > anyone
              > > > have on hand on patters in linen, specifically stripes. Was it ever
              > woven
              > > > that way? So far the only place I've seen stripes is in pants on eBay
              > (!)
              > > > but nothing in any source that even seems credible.
              > > > Thanks,
              > > > Meischa
              > > >
              >
              > __._,_
              > .
              >
              >
              >


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