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Re: [sig] Need advice on persona

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  • Lisa Kies
    Yes, yes, and yes. Wickenden discusses some of the possibilities, some of them quite unwieldy. http://heraldry.sca.org/paul/zgrammar.html And perhaps I should
    Message 1 of 19 , Apr 24 6:37 AM
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      Yes, yes, and yes. Wickenden discusses some of the possibilities, some of
      them quite unwieldy.
      http://heraldry.sca.org/paul/zgrammar.html

      And perhaps I should have said a woman's name _often_ changed after marriage
      instead of "usually."

      Sofya
      On Sat, Apr 23, 2011 at 8:15 PM, Amy Tubbs <ivanova.doch@...> wrote:

      > So, before I married, I was Vitasha Ivanova doch'. Now that I am married,
      > should I be Vitasha Ivanova doch' Ilina zhena (wife of Ilia) or even
      > Vitasha
      > Ilina zhena? Would it be allowable in period to be Vitasha Ivanova doch'
      > but sometimes be referred to as Vitasha Ilina zhena?
      >
      > -- Vitasha
      >
      > On Sat, Apr 23, 2011 at 5:59 PM, Lisa Kies <lkies319@...> wrote:
      >
      > >
      > >
      > > The doch' is useful to distinguish you from Vitasha Ivanova zhena, i.e.
      > > daugher of... vs wife of...
      > >
      > > A woman's name usually changed when she got married.
      > >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Lisa Kies
      Oh, that s a tough one. Edward is a Catholic saint, but he doesn t seem to be on my lists of Eastern Orthodox saints. In modern Russian, the name is Eduard,
      Message 2 of 19 , Apr 24 7:41 AM
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        Oh, that's a tough one. Edward is a Catholic saint, but he doesn't seem to
        be on my lists of Eastern Orthodox saints. In modern Russian, the name
        is Eduard, which would give us Katalena Eduardova zhena.

        I'm having trouble finding a medieval Russian equivalent of Edward. Going
        to the original Old English for inspiration... we see there are lots of
        different spellings (http://eagle.cch.kcl.ac.uk:8080/pase/persons/index.html ),
        none of which seem to be found in Wickenden, but here are some names that
        are evocative:

        Edviga... (although that's more like a different Anglo-Saxon name)
        Ed'.... Edor... Edrei
        Iador... Iadrei... Iabred... Idar... Idui... Obara... Obrad...
        Odor... Odur... Odo... Odoi... Odol... Ovad... Otrad...
        Udo... Udr... Uvar...
        Vardei... Vardamai...
        So you could also use one of the above as the basis of your Russian
        "patronymic" name.

        I just kept my father's name for my "Russian" name - Sofya Iakovleva
        doch' (James' daughter) instead of Sofya Sifridova zhena (Sifrid's wife). I
        would be known to my husband's people (Germans) as Sophia Sifridin.

        So there are lots of options. :-)

        Sofya

        On Sat, Apr 23, 2011 at 9:42 PM, hl_katalena <hl_katalena@...> wrote:

        > How would "Wife of Edward" look?
        >
        > Katalena
        >
        > --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, Lisa Kies <lkies319@...> wrote:
        > >
        > > The doch' is useful to distinguish you from Vitasha Ivanova zhena, i.e.
        > > daugher of... vs wife of...
        > >
        > > A woman's name usually changed when she got married.
        > > Sofya
        >
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • hl_katalena
        I thought Wife of Edward would be easier than Daughter of Elton . :) Thank you for the information. It gives me something to work on. Katalena
        Message 3 of 19 , Apr 24 8:22 AM
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          I thought "Wife of Edward" would be easier than "Daughter of Elton". :)

          Thank you for the information. It gives me something to work on.

          Katalena


          --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, Lisa Kies <lkies319@...> wrote:
          >
          > Oh, that's a tough one. Edward is a Catholic saint, but he doesn't seem to
          > be on my lists of Eastern Orthodox saints. In modern Russian, the name
          > is Eduard, which would give us Katalena Eduardova zhena.
          >
          > I'm having trouble finding a medieval Russian equivalent of Edward. Going
          > to the original Old English for inspiration... we see there are lots of
          > different spellings (http://eagle.cch.kcl.ac.uk:8080/pase/persons/index.html ),
          > none of which seem to be found in Wickenden, but here are some names that
          > are evocative:
          >
          > Edviga... (although that's more like a different Anglo-Saxon name)
          > Ed'.... Edor... Edrei
          > Iador... Iadrei... Iabred... Idar... Idui... Obara... Obrad...
          > Odor... Odur... Odo... Odoi... Odol... Ovad... Otrad...
          > Udo... Udr... Uvar...
          > Vardei... Vardamai...
          > So you could also use one of the above as the basis of your Russian
          > "patronymic" name.
          >
          > I just kept my father's name for my "Russian" name - Sofya Iakovleva
          > doch' (James' daughter) instead of Sofya Sifridova zhena (Sifrid's wife). I
          > would be known to my husband's people (Germans) as Sophia Sifridin.
          >
          > So there are lots of options. :-)
          >
          > Sofya
          >
        • Lisa Kies
          *laugh* Yeah, I think a Russianized Eduard would be easier than Elton. Of course, there are often middle names to work from, too... Sofya ... [Non-text
          Message 4 of 19 , Apr 24 6:44 PM
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            *laugh*

            Yeah, I think a Russianized Eduard would be easier than Elton. Of course,
            there are often middle names to work from, too...

            Sofya

            On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 10:22 AM, hl_katalena <hl_katalena@...> wrote:

            > I thought "Wife of Edward" would be easier than "Daughter of Elton". :)
            >
            > Thank you for the information. It gives me something to work on.
            >
            > Katalena
            >
            >
            > --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, Lisa Kies <lkies319@...> wrote:
            > >
            > > Oh, that's a tough one. Edward is a Catholic saint, but he doesn't seem
            > to
            > > be on my lists of Eastern Orthodox saints. In modern Russian, the name
            > > is Eduard, which would give us Katalena Eduardova zhena.
            > >
            > > I'm having trouble finding a medieval Russian equivalent of Edward.
            > Going
            > > to the original Old English for inspiration... we see there are lots of
            > > different spellings (
            > http://eagle.cch.kcl.ac.uk:8080/pase/persons/index.html ),
            > > none of which seem to be found in Wickenden, but here are some names that
            > > are evocative:
            > >
            > > Edviga... (although that's more like a different Anglo-Saxon name)
            > > Ed'.... Edor... Edrei
            > > Iador... Iadrei... Iabred... Idar... Idui... Obara... Obrad...
            > > Odor... Odur... Odo... Odoi... Odol... Ovad... Otrad...
            > > Udo... Udr... Uvar...
            > > Vardei... Vardamai...
            > > So you could also use one of the above as the basis of your Russian
            > > "patronymic" name.
            > >
            > > I just kept my father's name for my "Russian" name - Sofya Iakovleva
            > > doch' (James' daughter) instead of Sofya Sifridova zhena (Sifrid's wife).
            > I
            > > would be known to my husband's people (Germans) as Sophia Sifridin.
            > >
            > > So there are lots of options. :-)
            > >
            > > Sofya
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • hl_katalena
            Middle names...good idea! :) How about daughter of Hoover, Earl, or Phillips? My grandmother came up with some unusual name combinations for her kids. I
            Message 5 of 19 , Apr 25 9:59 AM
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              Middle names...good idea! :)

              How about daughter of Hoover, Earl, or Phillips? My grandmother came up with some unusual name combinations for her kids. I often wondered...What Was She Thinking?! *laugh*

              Katalena

              --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, Lisa Kies <lkies319@...> wrote:
              >
              > *laugh*
              >
              > Yeah, I think a Russianized Eduard would be easier than Elton. Of course,
              > there are often middle names to work from, too...
              >
              > Sofya
            • Lisa Kies
              Ah, Phillip! Now we ve got a real Russian name! In Wickenden s 3rd edition: Filipp Iaskominov 1393. also Filipets, Filipka, Filipko, Filka, Filko, Fili,
              Message 6 of 19 , Apr 25 7:18 PM
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                Ah, Phillip! Now we've got a real Russian name!

                In Wickenden's 3rd edition: Filipp Iaskominov 1393. also Filipets,
                Filipka, Filipko, Filka, Filko, Fili, Filip, Filipei, Fip, Pilip...

                Feminine patronymic forms can be created from any of the above. The ones
                documented in Wickenden: Filipova, Filipovskaia, Filippovna.

                Sofya


                On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 11:59 AM, hl_katalena <hl_katalena@...> wrote:

                > Middle names...good idea! :)
                >
                > How about daughter of Hoover, Earl, or Phillips? My grandmother came up
                > with some unusual name combinations for her kids. I often wondered...What
                > Was She Thinking?! *laugh*
                >
                > Katalena
                >
                > --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, Lisa Kies <lkies319@...> wrote:
                > >
                > > *laugh*
                > >
                > > Yeah, I think a Russianized Eduard would be easier than Elton. Of
                > course,
                > > there are often middle names to work from, too...
                > >
                > > Sofya
                >
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Amy Tubbs
                Pick some that you like, and then get your local herald to try to pronounce them. My patronymic (Ivanova) is constantly being mispronounced. Haven t any of
                Message 7 of 19 , Apr 25 8:01 PM
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                  Pick some that you like, and then get your local herald to try to pronounce
                  them. My patronymic (Ivanova) is constantly being mispronounced. Haven't
                  any of the heralds watched Babylon 5?!? ;-)
                  -- Vitasha

                  On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 7:18 PM, Lisa Kies <lkies319@...> wrote:

                  >
                  >
                  > Ah, Phillip! Now we've got a real Russian name!
                  >
                  > In Wickenden's 3rd edition: Filipp Iaskominov 1393. also Filipets,
                  > Filipka, Filipko, Filka, Filko, Fili, Filip, Filipei, Fip, Pilip...
                  >
                  > Feminine patronymic forms can be created from any of the above. The ones
                  > documented in Wickenden: Filipova, Filipovskaia, Filippovna.
                  >
                  > Sofya
                  >
                  >
                  > On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 11:59 AM, hl_katalena <hl_katalena@...>
                  > wrote:
                  >
                  > > Middle names...good idea! :)
                  > >
                  > > How about daughter of Hoover, Earl, or Phillips? My grandmother came up
                  > > with some unusual name combinations for her kids. I often wondered...What
                  > > Was She Thinking?! *laugh*
                  > >
                  > > Katalena
                  > >
                  > > --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, Lisa Kies <lkies319@...> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > *laugh*
                  > > >
                  > > > Yeah, I think a Russianized Eduard would be easier than Elton. Of
                  > > course,
                  > > > there are often middle names to work from, too...
                  > > >
                  > > > Sofya
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • hl_katalena
                  THANK YOU!! That is wonderful. Now it will be easy to find the right last name. I cannot thank you enough. Katalena
                  Message 8 of 19 , Apr 26 1:33 PM
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                    THANK YOU!! That is wonderful. Now it will be easy to find the right last name. I cannot thank you enough.

                    Katalena

                    --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, Lisa Kies <lkies319@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Ah, Phillip! Now we've got a real Russian name!
                    >
                    > In Wickenden's 3rd edition: Filipp Iaskominov 1393. also Filipets,
                    > Filipka, Filipko, Filka, Filko, Fili, Filip, Filipei, Fip, Pilip...
                    >
                    > Feminine patronymic forms can be created from any of the above. The ones
                    > documented in Wickenden: Filipova, Filipovskaia, Filippovna.
                    >
                    > Sofya
                    >
                    >
                    > On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 11:59 AM, hl_katalena <hl_katalena@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > > Middle names...good idea! :)
                    > >
                    > > How about daughter of Hoover, Earl, or Phillips? My grandmother came up
                    > > with some unusual name combinations for her kids. I often wondered...What
                    > > Was She Thinking?! *laugh*
                    > >
                    > > Katalena
                    > >
                    > > --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, Lisa Kies <lkies319@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > *laugh*
                    > > >
                    > > > Yeah, I think a Russianized Eduard would be easier than Elton. Of
                    > > course,
                    > > > there are often middle names to work from, too...
                    > > >
                    > > > Sofya
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                  • hl_katalena
                    Very good idea! It would be wise to hear what the name sounds like before taking one. I will do that. :) Katalena
                    Message 9 of 19 , Apr 26 1:39 PM
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                      Very good idea! It would be wise to hear what the name sounds like before taking one. I will do that. :)

                      Katalena


                      --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, Amy Tubbs <ivanova.doch@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Pick some that you like, and then get your local herald to try to pronounce
                      > them. My patronymic (Ivanova) is constantly being mispronounced. Haven't
                      > any of the heralds watched Babylon 5?!? ;-)
                      > -- Vitasha
                      >
                      > On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 7:18 PM, Lisa Kies <lkies319@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Ah, Phillip! Now we've got a real Russian name!
                      > >
                      > > In Wickenden's 3rd edition: Filipp Iaskominov 1393. also Filipets,
                      > > Filipka, Filipko, Filka, Filko, Fili, Filip, Filipei, Fip, Pilip...
                      > >
                      > > Feminine patronymic forms can be created from any of the above. The ones
                      > > documented in Wickenden: Filipova, Filipovskaia, Filippovna.
                      > >
                      > > Sofya
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 11:59 AM, hl_katalena <hl_katalena@...>
                      > > wrote:
                      > >
                      > > > Middle names...good idea! :)
                      > > >
                      > > > How about daughter of Hoover, Earl, or Phillips? My grandmother came up
                      > > > with some unusual name combinations for her kids. I often wondered...What
                      > > > Was She Thinking?! *laugh*
                      > > >
                      > > > Katalena
                      > > >
                      > > > --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, Lisa Kies <lkies319@> wrote:
                      > > > >
                      > > > > *laugh*
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Yeah, I think a Russianized Eduard would be easier than Elton. Of
                      > > > course,
                      > > > > there are often middle names to work from, too...
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Sofya
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
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