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Re: [sig] Need advice on persona

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  • Amy Tubbs
    I love working on period names. It seems to have been a convention of the earlier period to have only had a first and last name (as we would call them today).
    Message 1 of 19 , Apr 23, 2011
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      I love working on period names. It seems to have been a convention of the
      earlier period to have only had a first and last name (as we would call them
      today). My name is Vitasha Ivanova doch'. First name: Vitasha. Last name:
      Ivanova. doch' is an ending used to signify that I am the daughter...which
      seems kind of redundant to me, but looks nice anyways.

      Paul has a great naming dictionary online that also gives name construction
      for various periods. http://heraldry.sca.org/paul/
      Here is a link to Predslava's and Paul's webpages on naming practices:
      http://russiansig.wikispaces.com/Names+and+Naming+Practices

      If you have an idea of a name or names that you like, and would like help
      with constructions, let me know. When I was choosing my name, I decided to
      go with Ivanova because it is created from my real father's name, John which
      translates into Ivan in Russian. I used to go by the nickname Sasha, so I
      chose VItasha as my first name since it sounded similar, and I knew my ear
      would be trained to hear it, so I would answer to that name.

      -- Vitasha

      On Sat, Apr 23, 2011 at 12:30 PM, hl_katalena <hl_katalena@...> wrote:

      >
      >
      > I'm looking for advice on developing my SCA Russian persona. I'm trying to
      > find the right time period for my persona, and ideas for a middle and last
      > name.
      >
      > I love the idea of wearing Temple rings/jewlery! What clothing style did
      > they wear with the Temple rings? T-tunic type dress, Sarafan, or something
      > else?
      >
      > I'm trying to put together clothing that belong in the same time period for
      > a married woman.
      >
      > Thank you for any advice someone may have.
      >
      > Katalena
      >
      >
      >
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Amy Tubbs
      Sofya, what does Nasytivshimsya knizhnoj sladosti mean? --Vitasha ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      Message 2 of 19 , Apr 23, 2011
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        Sofya, what does "Nasytivshimsya knizhnoj sladosti" mean?
        --Vitasha

        On Sat, Apr 23, 2011 at 2:17 PM, Lisa Kies <lkies319@...> wrote:

        >
        >
        > Greetings from Sofya to Katalena!
        >
        >
        > On Sat, Apr 23, 2011 at 2:30 PM, hl_katalena <hl_katalena@...>
        > wrote:
        >
        > > I'm looking for advice on developing my SCA Russian persona. I'm trying
        > > to find the right time period for my persona, and ideas for a middle and
        > > last name.
        > >
        > > I love the idea of wearing Temple rings/jewlery! What clothing style did
        > > they wear with the Temple rings? T-tunic type dress, Sarafan, or
        > something
        > > else?
        > >
        >
        > Temple rings are 9th-13th century, so T-tunic-type garments of various
        > types. No sarafans - those are late period.
        >
        >
        > >
        > > I'm trying to put together clothing that belong in the same time period
        > > for a married woman.
        >
        > Have you seen these web sites?
        > http://russiansig.wikispaces.com/Dress+-+Clothing+and+Accessories
        > http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser/Russia/easybreezy.html
        >
        > If those sites don't answer your questions, let me know.
        >
        > At your service,
        >
        > Sofya
        >
        > ----------------------------------------------------------
        >
        > Lisa M. Kies, MD aka Sofya la Rus, OL, CW, CSH, druzhinnitsa Kramolnikova
        > Mason City, IA aka Shire of Heraldshill, Calontir
        > ___
        > http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser
        > {o,o}
        > "Si no necare, sana." "Mir znachit Pax Romanov"
        > (__(|
        > "Nasytivshimsya knizhnoj sladosti."
        > -^-^-`
        > ----------------------------------------------------------
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • hl_katalena
        Sofya, thank you for the wonderful links!! Many of my questions were answered. This is great! I am very excited about learning more, so much information. :)
        Message 3 of 19 , Apr 23, 2011
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          Sofya, thank you for the wonderful links!! Many of my questions were answered. This is great! I am very excited about learning more, so much information. :)

          Katalena
        • hl_katalena
          Vitasha, thank you! I will start looking for a good last name. The links you gave me are a great start. My russian persona is going to be much easier than I
          Message 4 of 19 , Apr 23, 2011
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            Vitasha, thank you! I will start looking for a good last name. The links you gave me are a great start. My russian persona is going to be much easier than I thought. The help I'm finding here with the SIG group is WONDERFUL! :)

            Katalena
          • Lisa Kies
            We are saturated with bookish sweetness. It s a quote from sermon by Metropolitan Ilarion, 11th century. Sofya ... [Non-text portions of this message have
            Message 5 of 19 , Apr 23, 2011
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              "We are saturated with bookish sweetness." It's a quote from sermon by
              Metropolitan Ilarion, 11th century.

              Sofya

              On Sat, Apr 23, 2011 at 7:27 PM, Amy Tubbs <ivanova.doch@...> wrote:

              > Sofya, what does "Nasytivshimsya knizhnoj sladosti" mean?
              > --Vitasha
              >
              > On Sat, Apr 23, 2011 at 2:17 PM, Lisa Kies <lkies319@...> wrote:
              >
              > >
              > --
              > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
              >
              > Lisa M. Kies, MD aka Sofya la Rus, OL, CW, CSH, druzhinnitsa Kramolnikova
              > Mason City, IA aka Shire of Heraldshill, Calontir
              > ___
              > http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser
              > {o,o}
              > "Si no necare, sana." "Mir znachit Pax Romanov"
              > (__(|
              > "Nasytivshimsya knizhnoj sladosti."
              > -^-^-`
              >
              > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Lisa Kies
              The doch is useful to distinguish you from Vitasha Ivanova zhena, i.e. daugher of... vs wife of... A woman s name usually changed when she got married. Sofya
              Message 6 of 19 , Apr 23, 2011
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                The doch' is useful to distinguish you from Vitasha Ivanova zhena, i.e.
                daugher of... vs wife of...

                A woman's name usually changed when she got married.
                Sofya
                On Sat, Apr 23, 2011 at 7:21 PM, Amy Tubbs <ivanova.doch@...> wrote:

                > I love working on period names. It seems to have been a convention of the
                > earlier period to have only had a first and last name (as we would call
                > them
                > today). My name is Vitasha Ivanova doch'. First name: Vitasha. Last
                > name:
                > Ivanova. doch' is an ending used to signify that I am the daughter...which
                > seems kind of redundant to me, but looks nice anyways.
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Amy Tubbs
                So, before I married, I was Vitasha Ivanova doch . Now that I am married, should I be Vitasha Ivanova doch Ilina zhena (wife of Ilia) or even Vitasha Ilina
                Message 7 of 19 , Apr 23, 2011
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                  So, before I married, I was Vitasha Ivanova doch'. Now that I am married,
                  should I be Vitasha Ivanova doch' Ilina zhena (wife of Ilia) or even Vitasha
                  Ilina zhena? Would it be allowable in period to be Vitasha Ivanova doch'
                  but sometimes be referred to as Vitasha Ilina zhena?

                  -- Vitasha

                  On Sat, Apr 23, 2011 at 5:59 PM, Lisa Kies <lkies319@...> wrote:

                  >
                  >
                  > The doch' is useful to distinguish you from Vitasha Ivanova zhena, i.e.
                  > daugher of... vs wife of...
                  >
                  > A woman's name usually changed when she got married.
                  > Sofya
                  >
                  > On Sat, Apr 23, 2011 at 7:21 PM, Amy Tubbs <ivanova.doch@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > > I love working on period names. It seems to have been a convention of the
                  > > earlier period to have only had a first and last name (as we would call
                  > > them
                  > > today). My name is Vitasha Ivanova doch'. First name: Vitasha. Last
                  > > name:
                  > > Ivanova. doch' is an ending used to signify that I am the
                  > daughter...which
                  > > seems kind of redundant to me, but looks nice anyways.
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • hl_katalena
                  How would Wife of Edward look? Katalena
                  Message 8 of 19 , Apr 23, 2011
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                    How would "Wife of Edward" look?

                    Katalena

                    --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, Lisa Kies <lkies319@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > The doch' is useful to distinguish you from Vitasha Ivanova zhena, i.e.
                    > daugher of... vs wife of...
                    >
                    > A woman's name usually changed when she got married.
                    > Sofya
                  • Lisa Kies
                    Yes, yes, and yes. Wickenden discusses some of the possibilities, some of them quite unwieldy. http://heraldry.sca.org/paul/zgrammar.html And perhaps I should
                    Message 9 of 19 , Apr 24, 2011
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                      Yes, yes, and yes. Wickenden discusses some of the possibilities, some of
                      them quite unwieldy.
                      http://heraldry.sca.org/paul/zgrammar.html

                      And perhaps I should have said a woman's name _often_ changed after marriage
                      instead of "usually."

                      Sofya
                      On Sat, Apr 23, 2011 at 8:15 PM, Amy Tubbs <ivanova.doch@...> wrote:

                      > So, before I married, I was Vitasha Ivanova doch'. Now that I am married,
                      > should I be Vitasha Ivanova doch' Ilina zhena (wife of Ilia) or even
                      > Vitasha
                      > Ilina zhena? Would it be allowable in period to be Vitasha Ivanova doch'
                      > but sometimes be referred to as Vitasha Ilina zhena?
                      >
                      > -- Vitasha
                      >
                      > On Sat, Apr 23, 2011 at 5:59 PM, Lisa Kies <lkies319@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > The doch' is useful to distinguish you from Vitasha Ivanova zhena, i.e.
                      > > daugher of... vs wife of...
                      > >
                      > > A woman's name usually changed when she got married.
                      > >


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Lisa Kies
                      Oh, that s a tough one. Edward is a Catholic saint, but he doesn t seem to be on my lists of Eastern Orthodox saints. In modern Russian, the name is Eduard,
                      Message 10 of 19 , Apr 24, 2011
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                        Oh, that's a tough one. Edward is a Catholic saint, but he doesn't seem to
                        be on my lists of Eastern Orthodox saints. In modern Russian, the name
                        is Eduard, which would give us Katalena Eduardova zhena.

                        I'm having trouble finding a medieval Russian equivalent of Edward. Going
                        to the original Old English for inspiration... we see there are lots of
                        different spellings (http://eagle.cch.kcl.ac.uk:8080/pase/persons/index.html ),
                        none of which seem to be found in Wickenden, but here are some names that
                        are evocative:

                        Edviga... (although that's more like a different Anglo-Saxon name)
                        Ed'.... Edor... Edrei
                        Iador... Iadrei... Iabred... Idar... Idui... Obara... Obrad...
                        Odor... Odur... Odo... Odoi... Odol... Ovad... Otrad...
                        Udo... Udr... Uvar...
                        Vardei... Vardamai...
                        So you could also use one of the above as the basis of your Russian
                        "patronymic" name.

                        I just kept my father's name for my "Russian" name - Sofya Iakovleva
                        doch' (James' daughter) instead of Sofya Sifridova zhena (Sifrid's wife). I
                        would be known to my husband's people (Germans) as Sophia Sifridin.

                        So there are lots of options. :-)

                        Sofya

                        On Sat, Apr 23, 2011 at 9:42 PM, hl_katalena <hl_katalena@...> wrote:

                        > How would "Wife of Edward" look?
                        >
                        > Katalena
                        >
                        > --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, Lisa Kies <lkies319@...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > The doch' is useful to distinguish you from Vitasha Ivanova zhena, i.e.
                        > > daugher of... vs wife of...
                        > >
                        > > A woman's name usually changed when she got married.
                        > > Sofya
                        >
                        >
                        >


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • hl_katalena
                        I thought Wife of Edward would be easier than Daughter of Elton . :) Thank you for the information. It gives me something to work on. Katalena
                        Message 11 of 19 , Apr 24, 2011
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                          I thought "Wife of Edward" would be easier than "Daughter of Elton". :)

                          Thank you for the information. It gives me something to work on.

                          Katalena


                          --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, Lisa Kies <lkies319@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Oh, that's a tough one. Edward is a Catholic saint, but he doesn't seem to
                          > be on my lists of Eastern Orthodox saints. In modern Russian, the name
                          > is Eduard, which would give us Katalena Eduardova zhena.
                          >
                          > I'm having trouble finding a medieval Russian equivalent of Edward. Going
                          > to the original Old English for inspiration... we see there are lots of
                          > different spellings (http://eagle.cch.kcl.ac.uk:8080/pase/persons/index.html ),
                          > none of which seem to be found in Wickenden, but here are some names that
                          > are evocative:
                          >
                          > Edviga... (although that's more like a different Anglo-Saxon name)
                          > Ed'.... Edor... Edrei
                          > Iador... Iadrei... Iabred... Idar... Idui... Obara... Obrad...
                          > Odor... Odur... Odo... Odoi... Odol... Ovad... Otrad...
                          > Udo... Udr... Uvar...
                          > Vardei... Vardamai...
                          > So you could also use one of the above as the basis of your Russian
                          > "patronymic" name.
                          >
                          > I just kept my father's name for my "Russian" name - Sofya Iakovleva
                          > doch' (James' daughter) instead of Sofya Sifridova zhena (Sifrid's wife). I
                          > would be known to my husband's people (Germans) as Sophia Sifridin.
                          >
                          > So there are lots of options. :-)
                          >
                          > Sofya
                          >
                        • Lisa Kies
                          *laugh* Yeah, I think a Russianized Eduard would be easier than Elton. Of course, there are often middle names to work from, too... Sofya ... [Non-text
                          Message 12 of 19 , Apr 24, 2011
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                            *laugh*

                            Yeah, I think a Russianized Eduard would be easier than Elton. Of course,
                            there are often middle names to work from, too...

                            Sofya

                            On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 10:22 AM, hl_katalena <hl_katalena@...> wrote:

                            > I thought "Wife of Edward" would be easier than "Daughter of Elton". :)
                            >
                            > Thank you for the information. It gives me something to work on.
                            >
                            > Katalena
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, Lisa Kies <lkies319@...> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Oh, that's a tough one. Edward is a Catholic saint, but he doesn't seem
                            > to
                            > > be on my lists of Eastern Orthodox saints. In modern Russian, the name
                            > > is Eduard, which would give us Katalena Eduardova zhena.
                            > >
                            > > I'm having trouble finding a medieval Russian equivalent of Edward.
                            > Going
                            > > to the original Old English for inspiration... we see there are lots of
                            > > different spellings (
                            > http://eagle.cch.kcl.ac.uk:8080/pase/persons/index.html ),
                            > > none of which seem to be found in Wickenden, but here are some names that
                            > > are evocative:
                            > >
                            > > Edviga... (although that's more like a different Anglo-Saxon name)
                            > > Ed'.... Edor... Edrei
                            > > Iador... Iadrei... Iabred... Idar... Idui... Obara... Obrad...
                            > > Odor... Odur... Odo... Odoi... Odol... Ovad... Otrad...
                            > > Udo... Udr... Uvar...
                            > > Vardei... Vardamai...
                            > > So you could also use one of the above as the basis of your Russian
                            > > "patronymic" name.
                            > >
                            > > I just kept my father's name for my "Russian" name - Sofya Iakovleva
                            > > doch' (James' daughter) instead of Sofya Sifridova zhena (Sifrid's wife).
                            > I
                            > > would be known to my husband's people (Germans) as Sophia Sifridin.
                            > >
                            > > So there are lots of options. :-)
                            > >
                            > > Sofya
                            >


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • hl_katalena
                            Middle names...good idea! :) How about daughter of Hoover, Earl, or Phillips? My grandmother came up with some unusual name combinations for her kids. I
                            Message 13 of 19 , Apr 25, 2011
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                              Middle names...good idea! :)

                              How about daughter of Hoover, Earl, or Phillips? My grandmother came up with some unusual name combinations for her kids. I often wondered...What Was She Thinking?! *laugh*

                              Katalena

                              --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, Lisa Kies <lkies319@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > *laugh*
                              >
                              > Yeah, I think a Russianized Eduard would be easier than Elton. Of course,
                              > there are often middle names to work from, too...
                              >
                              > Sofya
                            • Lisa Kies
                              Ah, Phillip! Now we ve got a real Russian name! In Wickenden s 3rd edition: Filipp Iaskominov 1393. also Filipets, Filipka, Filipko, Filka, Filko, Fili,
                              Message 14 of 19 , Apr 25, 2011
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                                Ah, Phillip! Now we've got a real Russian name!

                                In Wickenden's 3rd edition: Filipp Iaskominov 1393. also Filipets,
                                Filipka, Filipko, Filka, Filko, Fili, Filip, Filipei, Fip, Pilip...

                                Feminine patronymic forms can be created from any of the above. The ones
                                documented in Wickenden: Filipova, Filipovskaia, Filippovna.

                                Sofya


                                On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 11:59 AM, hl_katalena <hl_katalena@...> wrote:

                                > Middle names...good idea! :)
                                >
                                > How about daughter of Hoover, Earl, or Phillips? My grandmother came up
                                > with some unusual name combinations for her kids. I often wondered...What
                                > Was She Thinking?! *laugh*
                                >
                                > Katalena
                                >
                                > --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, Lisa Kies <lkies319@...> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > *laugh*
                                > >
                                > > Yeah, I think a Russianized Eduard would be easier than Elton. Of
                                > course,
                                > > there are often middle names to work from, too...
                                > >
                                > > Sofya
                                >
                                >
                                >


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Amy Tubbs
                                Pick some that you like, and then get your local herald to try to pronounce them. My patronymic (Ivanova) is constantly being mispronounced. Haven t any of
                                Message 15 of 19 , Apr 25, 2011
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                                  Pick some that you like, and then get your local herald to try to pronounce
                                  them. My patronymic (Ivanova) is constantly being mispronounced. Haven't
                                  any of the heralds watched Babylon 5?!? ;-)
                                  -- Vitasha

                                  On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 7:18 PM, Lisa Kies <lkies319@...> wrote:

                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Ah, Phillip! Now we've got a real Russian name!
                                  >
                                  > In Wickenden's 3rd edition: Filipp Iaskominov 1393. also Filipets,
                                  > Filipka, Filipko, Filka, Filko, Fili, Filip, Filipei, Fip, Pilip...
                                  >
                                  > Feminine patronymic forms can be created from any of the above. The ones
                                  > documented in Wickenden: Filipova, Filipovskaia, Filippovna.
                                  >
                                  > Sofya
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 11:59 AM, hl_katalena <hl_katalena@...>
                                  > wrote:
                                  >
                                  > > Middle names...good idea! :)
                                  > >
                                  > > How about daughter of Hoover, Earl, or Phillips? My grandmother came up
                                  > > with some unusual name combinations for her kids. I often wondered...What
                                  > > Was She Thinking?! *laugh*
                                  > >
                                  > > Katalena
                                  > >
                                  > > --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, Lisa Kies <lkies319@...> wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > *laugh*
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Yeah, I think a Russianized Eduard would be easier than Elton. Of
                                  > > course,
                                  > > > there are often middle names to work from, too...
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Sofya
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >


                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • hl_katalena
                                  THANK YOU!! That is wonderful. Now it will be easy to find the right last name. I cannot thank you enough. Katalena
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Apr 26, 2011
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                                    THANK YOU!! That is wonderful. Now it will be easy to find the right last name. I cannot thank you enough.

                                    Katalena

                                    --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, Lisa Kies <lkies319@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Ah, Phillip! Now we've got a real Russian name!
                                    >
                                    > In Wickenden's 3rd edition: Filipp Iaskominov 1393. also Filipets,
                                    > Filipka, Filipko, Filka, Filko, Fili, Filip, Filipei, Fip, Pilip...
                                    >
                                    > Feminine patronymic forms can be created from any of the above. The ones
                                    > documented in Wickenden: Filipova, Filipovskaia, Filippovna.
                                    >
                                    > Sofya
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 11:59 AM, hl_katalena <hl_katalena@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > > Middle names...good idea! :)
                                    > >
                                    > > How about daughter of Hoover, Earl, or Phillips? My grandmother came up
                                    > > with some unusual name combinations for her kids. I often wondered...What
                                    > > Was She Thinking?! *laugh*
                                    > >
                                    > > Katalena
                                    > >
                                    > > --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, Lisa Kies <lkies319@> wrote:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > *laugh*
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Yeah, I think a Russianized Eduard would be easier than Elton. Of
                                    > > course,
                                    > > > there are often middle names to work from, too...
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Sofya
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >
                                  • hl_katalena
                                    Very good idea! It would be wise to hear what the name sounds like before taking one. I will do that. :) Katalena
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Apr 26, 2011
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                                      Very good idea! It would be wise to hear what the name sounds like before taking one. I will do that. :)

                                      Katalena


                                      --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, Amy Tubbs <ivanova.doch@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Pick some that you like, and then get your local herald to try to pronounce
                                      > them. My patronymic (Ivanova) is constantly being mispronounced. Haven't
                                      > any of the heralds watched Babylon 5?!? ;-)
                                      > -- Vitasha
                                      >
                                      > On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 7:18 PM, Lisa Kies <lkies319@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > Ah, Phillip! Now we've got a real Russian name!
                                      > >
                                      > > In Wickenden's 3rd edition: Filipp Iaskominov 1393. also Filipets,
                                      > > Filipka, Filipko, Filka, Filko, Fili, Filip, Filipei, Fip, Pilip...
                                      > >
                                      > > Feminine patronymic forms can be created from any of the above. The ones
                                      > > documented in Wickenden: Filipova, Filipovskaia, Filippovna.
                                      > >
                                      > > Sofya
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 11:59 AM, hl_katalena <hl_katalena@...>
                                      > > wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > > Middle names...good idea! :)
                                      > > >
                                      > > > How about daughter of Hoover, Earl, or Phillips? My grandmother came up
                                      > > > with some unusual name combinations for her kids. I often wondered...What
                                      > > > Was She Thinking?! *laugh*
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Katalena
                                      > > >
                                      > > > --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, Lisa Kies <lkies319@> wrote:
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > *laugh*
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Yeah, I think a Russianized Eduard would be easier than Elton. Of
                                      > > > course,
                                      > > > > there are often middle names to work from, too...
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Sofya
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > >
                                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
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