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Re: [sig] Boot leather?

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  • Alexey Kiyaikin aka Posadnik
    Greetings. What time period boots? Heels are late period, while flat soles are early period footwear. Bye, Alex Wed, 6 Apr 2011 03:40:32 -0600 письмо
    Message 1 of 8 , Apr 6 2:54 AM
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      Greetings.
      What time period boots? Heels are late period, while flat soles are early period footwear.

      Bye,
      Alex

      Wed, 6 Apr 2011 03:40:32 -0600 письмо от Kristina Jarvis <kristina.jarvis@...>:


      Hi everyone,

      I am planning on making some Russian boots soon for an A&S project,
      and I was wondering what thickness of leather I should be looking for
      for the boots. They will be calf height, with the slanted cut from
      front to back and maybe a very small heel (I know the heel is period,
      but my ankles and legs cannot tolerate heels).

      Thanks for your help!

      Kseniia



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Sfandra
      You actually will want several different thicknesses. For the uppers (over the foot, up the calf), it ll depend on how stiff you want the boot to stand. My
      Message 2 of 8 , Apr 6 6:08 AM
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        You actually will want several different thicknesses. For the uppers (over the foot, up the calf), it'll depend on how stiff you want the boot to stand. My lord Aleksei's boots are 8 oz leather. When on, they stay up well, minimal slouching, though off they flop over.

        For the SOLE, you'll want Sole Leather. There's a slightly different tanning process for sole leather, which leaves it tough enough for the beating it will get. 12 oz sole leather is probably tough enough for SCA purposes -- you won't be wearing them every day. However, if you're going to build up a heel, you don't want to go much higher than 1" (even only 3/4ths inch I'd say) because then you're getting to the point where you'll need extra arch support from heel to toes, and that's usually accomplished these days with a metal shank.

        Last but not least is the lining. At the very least, you'll want a softer footbed, so you want very fine soft leather, maybe even pigskin. You might want enough to line the whole boot.

        For footwear in general, you're going to have to make a tough call: veggie-tan versus chrome tan. I doubt you'll find brain-tanned anywhere these days, short of developing a relationship with a hunter. Chrome Tan is cheapest, but not period, holds up to wet weather better, and is sometimes dyed during processing, which makes it hold its color better. It cannot be tooled. Veggie-tan is the type used for leather carving & shaping (such as leather armor), is unstable when wet (will stretch then shrink and possibly crack), when wet and very warm it shrinks severely and becomes brittle (look up boiled leather armor or Cariodoc's Perfect Armor). It usually comes un-dyed, takes color very well (be warned, it soaks it up like water, and might shrink because of that - this has happened to my coronet), and can be tooled. It can also be SEALED with specific products (Feibing's Leather Sheen), and should be re-sealed regularly. I've used upholstery thread on
        leather projects and coated it with Leather Sheen and not seen any problems with thread discoloration or anything.

        I personally have found that for my little random projects, I like chrome tanned, but if I were shaping or tooling, or doing an A&S project ;) , I'd probably do veggie-tanned.

        Lining the boot & shaft will help with the boot standing up, but you could always get your hands on a pair of plastic boot shapers (http://www.containerstore.com/shop?productId=10000125&N=&Ntt=boot) for display purposes.

        I'm only a beginner at leather crafting, but I have a couple of friends who are really accomplished, so I could pass on questions if you wanted.

        Cheers,
        Sfandra


        ******************
        Posadnitsa Sfandra Dmitrieva Chernigova
        OL, OM, KOE, Haus VDK, East Kingdom
        http://sfandra.webs.com
        ******************
        Never 'pearl' your butt.
        "Ja mogu sdelat' to."
        ******************


        --- On Wed, 4/6/11, Kristina Jarvis <kristina.jarvis@...> wrote:

        > From: Kristina Jarvis <kristina.jarvis@...>
        > Subject: [sig] Boot leather?
        > To: sig@yahoogroups.com
        > Date: Wednesday, April 6, 2011, 5:40 AM
        > Hi everyone,
        >
        > I am planning on making some Russian boots soon for an
        > A&S project, 
        > and I was wondering what thickness of leather I should be
        > looking for 
        > for the boots. They will be calf height, with the slanted
        > cut from 
        > front to back and maybe a very small heel (I know the heel
        > is period, 
        > but my ankles and legs cannot tolerate heels).
        >
        > Thanks for your help!
        >
        > Kseniia
        >
        >
      • Kristina Jarvis
        My persona is 1563 Russia, so very late period. I understand that heels are late period, which is why I am considering putting a small one on. But I also have
        Message 3 of 8 , Apr 6 10:57 AM
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          My persona is 1563 Russia, so very late period. I understand that heels are late period, which is why I am considering putting a small one on. But I also have mundane considerations to think of here, namely being able to walk around for a day in these without hurting myself. My ability to walk with little to no pain trumps period for me.

          Thanks,
          Kseniia

          --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, Alexey Kiyaikin aka Posadnik <Posadnik@...> wrote:
          >
          > Greetings.
          > What time period boots? Heels are late period, while flat soles are early period footwear.
          >
          > Bye,
          > Alex
          >
          > Wed, 6 Apr 2011 03:40:32 -0600 письмо от Kristina Jarvis <kristina.jarvis@...>:
          >
          >
          > Hi everyone,
          >
          > I am planning on making some Russian boots soon for an A&S project,
          > and I was wondering what thickness of leather I should be looking for
          > for the boots. They will be calf height, with the slanted cut from
          > front to back and maybe a very small heel (I know the heel is period,
          > but my ankles and legs cannot tolerate heels).
          >
          > Thanks for your help!
          >
          > Kseniia
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • Kristina Jarvis
          I believe the leather I will be buying is veggie tanned, but I will find out for sure when I get to the shop. I plan on talking with someone tonight about
          Message 4 of 8 , Apr 6 11:55 AM
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            I believe the leather I will be buying is veggie tanned, but I will find out for sure when I get to the shop. I plan on talking with someone tonight about this, as they are in the SCA and work at the leather shop in town.

            Now, would it be period to line the boot with another leather? It makes sense to do that to the footbed, and where there are seams to stop the seams from rubbing in. But is this a period practice?

            Also, does anyone out there know of some good boot construction sources? This is a first for me.

            Kseniia

            --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, Sfandra <seonaid13@...> wrote:
            >
            > You actually will want several different thicknesses. For the uppers (over the foot, up the calf), it'll depend on how stiff you want the boot to stand. My lord Aleksei's boots are 8 oz leather. When on, they stay up well, minimal slouching, though off they flop over.
            >
            > For the SOLE, you'll want Sole Leather. There's a slightly different tanning process for sole leather, which leaves it tough enough for the beating it will get. 12 oz sole leather is probably tough enough for SCA purposes -- you won't be wearing them every day. However, if you're going to build up a heel, you don't want to go much higher than 1" (even only 3/4ths inch I'd say) because then you're getting to the point where you'll need extra arch support from heel to toes, and that's usually accomplished these days with a metal shank.
            >
            > Last but not least is the lining. At the very least, you'll want a softer footbed, so you want very fine soft leather, maybe even pigskin. You might want enough to line the whole boot.
            >
            > For footwear in general, you're going to have to make a tough call: veggie-tan versus chrome tan. I doubt you'll find brain-tanned anywhere these days, short of developing a relationship with a hunter. Chrome Tan is cheapest, but not period, holds up to wet weather better, and is sometimes dyed during processing, which makes it hold its color better. It cannot be tooled. Veggie-tan is the type used for leather carving & shaping (such as leather armor), is unstable when wet (will stretch then shrink and possibly crack), when wet and very warm it shrinks severely and becomes brittle (look up boiled leather armor or Cariodoc's Perfect Armor). It usually comes un-dyed, takes color very well (be warned, it soaks it up like water, and might shrink because of that - this has happened to my coronet), and can be tooled. It can also be SEALED with specific products (Feibing's Leather Sheen), and should be re-sealed regularly. I've used upholstery thread on
            > leather projects and coated it with Leather Sheen and not seen any problems with thread discoloration or anything.
            >
            > I personally have found that for my little random projects, I like chrome tanned, but if I were shaping or tooling, or doing an A&S project ;) , I'd probably do veggie-tanned.
            >
            > Lining the boot & shaft will help with the boot standing up, but you could always get your hands on a pair of plastic boot shapers (http://www.containerstore.com/shop?productId=10000125&N=&Ntt=boot) for display purposes.
            >
            > I'm only a beginner at leather crafting, but I have a couple of friends who are really accomplished, so I could pass on questions if you wanted.
            >
            > Cheers,
            > Sfandra
            >
            >
            > ******************
            > Posadnitsa Sfandra Dmitrieva Chernigova
            > OL, OM, KOE, Haus VDK, East Kingdom
            > http://sfandra.webs.com
            > ******************
            > Never 'pearl' your butt.
            > "Ja mogu sdelat' to."
            > ******************
            >
            >
            > --- On Wed, 4/6/11, Kristina Jarvis <kristina.jarvis@...> wrote:
            >
            > > From: Kristina Jarvis <kristina.jarvis@...>
            > > Subject: [sig] Boot leather?
            > > To: sig@yahoogroups.com
            > > Date: Wednesday, April 6, 2011, 5:40 AM
            > > Hi everyone,
            > >
            > > I am planning on making some Russian boots soon for an
            > > A&S project, 
            > > and I was wondering what thickness of leather I should be
            > > looking for 
            > > for the boots. They will be calf height, with the slanted
            > > cut from 
            > > front to back and maybe a very small heel (I know the heel
            > > is period, 
            > > but my ankles and legs cannot tolerate heels).
            > >
            > > Thanks for your help!
            > >
            > > Kseniia
            > >
            > >
            >
          • T Duran
            On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 6:55 AM, Kristina Jarvis ... This guy: http://wherearetheelves.net/ is our local leather footwear expert. I don t that he s done many
            Message 5 of 8 , Apr 6 2:42 PM
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              On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 6:55 AM, Kristina Jarvis
              <kristina.jarvis@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              > I believe the leather I will be buying is veggie tanned, but I will find out for sure when I get to the shop. I plan on talking with someone tonight about this, as they are in the SCA and work at the leather shop in town.
              >
              > Now, would it be period to line the boot with another leather? It makes sense to do that to the footbed, and where there are seams to stop the seams from rubbing in. But is this a period practice?
              >
              > Also, does anyone out there know of some good boot construction sources? This is a first for me.


              This guy:
              http://wherearetheelves.net/

              is our local leather footwear expert. I don't that he's done many
              boots, but he would likely have sources he could point you to. One of
              his links is to a site that specializes in researching and
              constructing heeled shoes/boots:
              http://aands.org/raisedheels/

              HTH
              Kazimira
            • Sfandra
              The period boot that jumps to my mind was not lined, I don t think. Check out Michael of Safita s Medieval Russian Leather page; that s the one I think of,
              Message 6 of 8 , Apr 6 5:53 PM
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                The period boot that jumps to my mind was not lined, I don't think. Check out Michael of Safita's Medieval Russian Leather page; that's the one I think of, and the one my lord's boots are based upon (we had them made custom from Armlann.com). But it IS only a photo.

                Honestly, 90% of what I know is from a few years selling western cowboy boots and the rest is observation. In the store selling boots, we actually had two "disected" boots - one cut across the arch, the other cut right up the middle, toes to shin - to show construction.

                --Sfandra


                ******************
                Posadnitsa Sfandra Dmitrieva Chernigova
                OL, OM, KOE, Haus VDK, East Kingdom
                http://sfandra.webs.com
                ******************
                Never 'pearl' your butt.
                "Ja mogu sdelat' to."
                ******************


                --- On Wed, 4/6/11, Kristina Jarvis <kristina.jarvis@...> wrote:

                > From: Kristina Jarvis <kristina.jarvis@...>
                > Subject: [sig] Re: Boot leather?
                > To: sig@yahoogroups.com
                > Date: Wednesday, April 6, 2011, 2:55 PM
                > I believe the leather I will be
                > buying is veggie tanned, but I will find out for sure when I
                > get to the shop. I plan on talking with someone tonight
                > about this, as they are in the SCA and work at the leather
                > shop in town.
                >
                > Now, would it be period to line the boot with another
                > leather? It makes sense to do that to the footbed, and where
                > there are seams to stop the seams from rubbing in. But is
                > this a period practice?
                >
                > Also, does anyone out there know of some good boot
                > construction sources? This is a first for me.
                >
                > Kseniia
                >
              • Tamie
                When do the heels start to appear? Tama ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                Message 7 of 8 , Apr 7 12:12 AM
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                  When do the heels start to appear?
                  Tama

                  On 4/6/2011 9:57 AM, Kristina Jarvis wrote:
                  >
                  > I understand that heels are late period
                  >


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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