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Re: [sig] Re: Slavic and Latin "Mistress" honorary

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  • Patricia Hefner
    Yeah, it s nice to have a new Laurel in the SIG. THL Isabelle de Foix   blog URL: http://verte76.blogspot.com/ ________________________________ From:
    Message 1 of 10 , Oct 13, 2010
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      Yeah, it's nice to have a new Laurel in the SIG.
      THL Isabelle de Foix
       
      blog URL: http://verte76.blogspot.com/




      ________________________________
      From: Quokkaqueen <quokkaqueen@...>
      To: sig@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Wed, October 13, 2010 6:28:46 PM
      Subject: [sig] Re: Slavic and Latin "Mistress" honorary

       
      Congratulations! =)

      The Latin "magistra" is usually translated as "mistress", but it also means
      "teacher". Is there a Croatian title that is used by teachers that could work?
      (I can't tell if 'učiteljica' is used as a title or not.)

      Wikipedia says one of the first Croatian dictionaries was
      Fausto Veranzio (Vrančić) "Dictionarium quinque nobilissimarum Europæ
      linguarum, Latinæ, Italicæ, Germanicæ, Dalmatiæ, & Vulgaricæ", Apud Nicolaum
      Morettum, 1595, Venice
      http://books.google.com/books?id=oFlgAAAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=Fausto+Veranzio&as_brr=4&hl=en&cd=1#v=onepage&q&f=false


      Along the row for "Magister" (masculine) it gives:
      Italian: Maestro
      German: Meister
      Dalmatic: Mestar
      Hungarian: Mester

      I haven't been able to find any other free scans of 16th c. dictionaries online,
      but there is a list of them here: http://www.ihjj.hr/oHrJeziku-rjecnici.html
      and it looks like you might be able to order copies of them, or you could ask
      your cousin to look for them in a library?

      eg. 1599 dictionary, http://www.ks.hr/knjizara.php?id=470

      Not very helpful, I know. Sorry.
      ~Asfridhr

      --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, Lydia Leovic <lidia_de_ragusa@...> wrote:

      > I have been talking with my cousin from Zagreb, and he does not really think
      > there is a Croatian honorarium title that is accurately Mistress.  As with my
      > passed SCA name, I expect to have to Latinize the Mistress title "MAGISTRA." 




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Lee
      Lidia, It is very hard to find the right kind of word that describes a female master . The one you chose Majstorica is actually someone who builds things.
      Message 2 of 10 , Oct 13, 2010
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        Lidia,

        It is very hard to find the right kind of word that describes a female "master". The one you chose "Majstorica" is actually someone who builds things. If used in a sentence as a statement to someone, then it means that you've mastered something. If you own an establishment "Gazdarica, Gospodarica" is what you would be using. "Gospoda" means "Mrs." The closest you can come to being called Mistress in the SCA would probably be "Majstorica". But, if you do find a correct one. It would be good if I knew, too. I'm wondering if you can get away with being called that if all your reseaching yeilds only that one title that may fit. Good luck. See you soon.

        YiS
        Branimira of the Isles, Crown Province of Ostgardr. East Kingdom.


        --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, Lydia Leovic <lidia_de_ragusa@...> wrote:
        >
        > Dear friends,
        >
        > It is with gratefulness and humility that I share with you all that I received
        > my Writ for the Order of the Laurel and will sit Vigil on 10/30 at the Hawkwood
        > Howl event in Atlantia  (Asheville, NC).
        >
        > I have been talking with my cousin from Zagreb, and he does not really think
        > there is a Croatian honorarium title that is accurately Mistress.  As with my
        > passed SCA name, I expect to have to Latinize the Mistress title "MAGISTRA." 
        > Yet, I am interested in knowing a Slavic equivalent to Mistress. 
        > Google translate is not going to help  us, though.  For instance, I like the
        > sound of "Majstorica,"  but my cousin Danijel did not think that was a word used
        > as a title in Croatian.
        >
        > If anyone on this list has an understanding of this issue and would offer me
        > words of advice, I would greatly appreciate it.
        >
        > YIS,
        > Lidia
        >
        > Visit Lidia de Ragusa online at http://home.roadrunner.com/~lkleovic/
        >
        >
        > Per bend sinister azure and argent, a sun in splendor Or and a fox passant
        > azure.
        >
        >
        > What's my latest fiber project?
        > http://lidia-ragusa.diaryland.com/
        >
        >
        > "Respect is what we owe; love, what we give." --Philip James Bailey
        >
        >
        > "A good deed is never lost: he who sows courtesy reaps friendship; and
        > he who plants kindness gathers love." --Basil
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • Owlharp@juno.com
        Lidia, my heartiest congratulations to you! I just wish we were going to be down there on the 30th to attend your vigil. My own instinctive reply to your
        Message 3 of 10 , Oct 15, 2010
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          Lidia, my heartiest congratulations to you! I just wish we were going to
          be down there on the 30th to attend your vigil.

          My own instinctive reply to your question - at least from a Russian point
          of view - is the term "khozyayka", which means Mistress of the house but
          in the medieval understanding of it as explained in the Domostroy, such a
          person is expected to be the resident expert on all sorts of activities.
          To me, this is the closest fit.

          Mistress Fevronia Murometsa

          ____________________________________________________________
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        • Suzanne
          Wonderful! Huzzah!! ^Cestitam! My dictionary suggests Gazdarica as the feminine equivalent of master, host, boss , but there are no historical notes so I
          Message 4 of 10 , Oct 16, 2010
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            Wonderful! Huzzah!! ^Cestitam!

            My dictionary suggests Gazdarica as the feminine equivalent of "master, host, boss", but there are no historical notes so I can't say if this is appropriate to your period. (I also can't tell if it's a Serbian variant rather than Croatian.)

            It's an interesting question--I'm looking forward to hearing the answer(s).

            YIS,
            Susanna de l'Essart


            --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, Lydia Leovic <lidia_de_ragusa@...> wrote:
            >
            > Dear friends,
            >
            > It is with gratefulness and humility that I share with you all that I received
            > my Writ for the Order of the Laurel and will sit Vigil on 10/30 at the Hawkwood
            > Howl event in Atlantia  (Asheville, NC).
            >
            > I have been talking with my cousin from Zagreb, and he does not really think
            > there is a Croatian honorarium title that is accurately Mistress.  As with my
            > passed SCA name, I expect to have to Latinize the Mistress title "MAGISTRA." 
            > Yet, I am interested in knowing a Slavic equivalent to Mistress. 
            > Google translate is not going to help  us, though.  For instance, I like the
            > sound of "Majstorica,"  but my cousin Danijel did not think that was a word used
            > as a title in Croatian.
            >
            > If anyone on this list has an understanding of this issue and would offer me
            > words of advice, I would greatly appreciate it.
            >
            > YIS,
            > Lidia
            >
          • Lee
            Hello. Gazdrica is just a term we use for someone who is in charge of, or an owner of an establishment or house. Moslty this is a term we use for an owner
            Message 5 of 10 , Oct 18, 2010
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              Hello.

              "Gazdrica" is just a term we use for someone who is in charge of, or an owner of an establishment or house. Moslty this is a term we use for an owner of a house. I have not heard this term used to describe as a female Master of a trade. Not in modern terms or during the Middle Ages. I will keep my ears glued for more info. Hope this was helpful.

              YiS
              Branimira.
              East Kingdom.

              --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, "Suzanne" <sovagris@...> wrote:
              >
              > Wonderful! Huzzah!! ^Cestitam!
              >
              > My dictionary suggests Gazdarica as the feminine equivalent of "master, host, boss", but there are no historical notes so I can't say if this is appropriate to your period. (I also can't tell if it's a Serbian variant rather than Croatian.)
              >
              > It's an interesting question--I'm looking forward to hearing the answer(s).
              >
              > YIS,
              > Susanna de l'Essart
              >
              >
              > --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, Lydia Leovic <lidia_de_ragusa@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Dear friends,
              > >
              > > It is with gratefulness and humility that I share with you all that I received
              > > my Writ for the Order of the Laurel and will sit Vigil on 10/30 at the Hawkwood
              > > Howl event in Atlantia  (Asheville, NC).
              > >
              > > I have been talking with my cousin from Zagreb, and he does not really think
              > > there is a Croatian honorarium title that is accurately Mistress.  As with my
              > > passed SCA name, I expect to have to Latinize the Mistress title "MAGISTRA." 
              > > Yet, I am interested in knowing a Slavic equivalent to Mistress. 
              > > Google translate is not going to help  us, though.  For instance, I like the
              > > sound of "Majstorica,"  but my cousin Danijel did not think that was a word used
              > > as a title in Croatian.
              > >
              > > If anyone on this list has an understanding of this issue and would offer me
              > > words of advice, I would greatly appreciate it.
              > >
              > > YIS,
              > > Lidia
              > >
              >
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