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Panova picture

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  • Leslie MacForrest
    Hokay, I found Kseniia s page with the panova pictures. Now I have more questions...there appears to be a high drawstring neck on one of the dresses, and I
    Message 1 of 5 , Jan 6, 2000
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      Hokay, I found Kseniia's page with the panova pictures. Now I have more
      questions...there appears to be a high drawstring neck on one of the
      dresses, and I wonder what the ties for the panovas are made of. The
      baglike hat on the center woman is interesting. Does anyone have knowledge
      of these things?

      (The picture is at http://www.geocities.com/~chrstnj/sca/panova.jpg )
      (Kseniia, the alternate address you gave me didn't work, but this one did
      when I tried again later. Who knows!)

      It's too bad our information for panovas is so limited. It seems
      reasonable that something like them was used, given the universality of an
      "apron" garment for working women. I don't assume, myself, that the
      three-panel construction was always done just so; there doesn't seem to be
      enough evidence. The major point I'd like to find confirmation for is that
      there was a decorated "apron" over a plainer garment. That's of interest
      because it's a reverse of the usual. Comments?

      Larisa Ivanova
      Off to 12N2K. Have a great weekend, everyone!
    • Jenn/Yana
      ... From the panova ties, it looks like tablet-woven strips. I don t know if tablet-weaving is period for early Rus, someone else will probably know. Easy
      Message 2 of 5 , Jan 7, 2000
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        >Hokay, I found Kseniia's page with the panova pictures. Now I have more
        >questions...there appears to be a high drawstring neck on one of the
        >dresses, and I wonder what the ties for the panovas are made of. The
        >baglike hat on the center woman is interesting. Does anyone have knowledge
        >of these things?

        From the panova ties, it looks like tablet-woven strips. I don't know if
        tablet-weaving is period for early Rus, someone else will probably know.
        Easy enough to buy or make and I would say it would be a good thing to use
        on your own panova. The neckline on the shirt may be a drawstring, or it
        could just be ties, possibly on a gathered neckline. Artist's renditions
        can miss details like that. Someone needs to read the text to be sure (Hey
        Kseniia, how is that translation going?).

        >It's too bad our information for panovas is so limited. It seems
        >reasonable that something like them was used, given the universality of an
        >"apron" garment for working women. I don't assume, myself, that the
        >three-panel construction was always done just so; there doesn't seem to be
        >enough evidence. The major point I'd like to find confirmation for is that
        >there was a decorated "apron" over a plainer garment. That's of interest
        >because it's a reverse of the usual. Comments?

        Well, we do have evidence for other types of overgarments that would serve
        the same purpose as an apron. A <navershnik> is a short-sleeved women's
        overtunic that seems to only come to mid thigh or higher, a <zipun> is a
        tabard-like garment worn by young women. There are drawings of these
        garments in Yuri Tkach's _Ukrainian Costume_, but take the color drawings
        with a grain or two of salt, they aren't rendered very accurately. I
        believe that the women in the famous bracelet panel (I can't find a picture
        right now) that everyone refers to are more likely wearing zipuns. Some
        think they are wearing panovas, but since there is a *central* front panel
        that is higher than the hemline of the undergarment, I think it is more
        like an apron than an overskirt.

        As for a decorated apron, no evidence for them in Russia before 1700 that I
        know of. What do you mean by "the reverse of usual"? For SCA-period, you
        mean? Because for most Central and Eastern European women's peasant
        clothing in the 18th and 19th centuries, a heavily decorated apron worn on
        special occasions would be very normal.

        --Yana
      • LiudmilaV@xxx.xxx
        In a message dated 1/7/2000 8:08:04 AM Pacific Standard Time, jdmiller2@students.wisc.edu writes: is a tabard-like garment worn by young women.
        Message 3 of 5 , Jan 7, 2000
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          In a message dated 1/7/2000 8:08:04 AM Pacific Standard Time,
          jdmiller2@... writes:

          << a <zipun> is a
          tabard-like garment worn by young women. >>

          Are you sure? I believe that "zipun" is a male overcoat. I think what you
          are refering to is "zapona" or "zanaveska"...must check which one if they are
          different.

          Liudmila
        • Jenn/Yana
          ... Nope, I wasn t sure. I meant a zanaviska. I knew I should have checked the book before sending that message! (Reminder to self, proofread before
          Message 4 of 5 , Jan 7, 2000
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            >Are you sure? I believe that "zipun" is a male overcoat. I think what you
            >are refering to is "zapona" or "zanaveska"...must check which one if they are
            >different.

            Nope, I wasn't sure. I meant a zanaviska. I knew I should have checked
            the book before sending that message! (Reminder to self, proofread before
            sending).

            --Yana
          • Diane S. Sawyer
            ... What s the difference between a zapona and a zanaviska? Tasha __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online
            Message 5 of 5 , Jan 7, 2000
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              --- Jenn/Yana <jdmiller2@...> wrote:
              > >Are you sure? I believe that "zipun" is a male
              > overcoat. I think what you
              > >are refering to is "zapona" or "zanaveska"...must
              > check which one if they are
              > >different.
              >
              > Nope, I wasn't sure. I meant a zanaviska. I knew I
              > should have checked
              > the book before sending that message! (Reminder to
              > self, proofread before
              > sending).
              >
              > --Yana
              >

              What's the difference between a zapona and a
              zanaviska?

              Tasha
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