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15th Century Russian

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  • Rosie
    Hi Sig, Sofya in particular! I ve been looking at this: http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser/Russia/PartizanWoman.html and have a few questions. I m trying to
    Message 1 of 6 , May 7, 2010
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      Hi Sig, Sofya in particular!

      I've been looking at this: http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser/Russia/PartizanWoman.html and have a few questions. I'm trying to assess my stash for Midwinter outfit possibilities for myself and my three year old daughter.

      What sort of fabric could the overdress be made of? The example is made from an off white satin. Must it be white? Must it be satin? Can it have patterns or should it be plain? I suppose plain, who is going to go to the trouble of embroidering patterned fabric?

      The letnik should be a heavy linen? Any colour is fine? What about the voshv? What sort of fabric could they be?

      The odnoryadka? I can't really see what that is.


      Thanks,
      Nawojka
    • Lisa Kies
      Greetings from Sofya to Nawojka! ... The overdress does not need to be white, nor does it need to be satin. The fabric may be patterned or plain. And even
      Message 2 of 6 , May 8, 2010
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        Greetings from Sofya to Nawojka!

        On Sat, May 8, 2010 at 1:50 AM, Rosie <Rosie_0801@...> wrote:

        > Hi Sig, Sofya in particular!
        >
        > I've been looking at this:
        > http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser/Russia/PartizanWoman.html and have a
        > few questions. I'm trying to assess my stash for Midwinter outfit
        > possibilities for myself and my three year old daughter.
        >
        > What sort of fabric could the overdress be made of? The example is made
        > from an off white satin. Must it be white? Must it be satin? Can it have
        > patterns or should it be plain? I suppose plain, who is going to go to the
        > trouble of embroidering patterned fabric?
        >
        The overdress does not need to be white, nor does it need to be satin. The
        fabric may be patterned or plain. And even patterned fabric can be
        embroidered - pearls go with everything! :-)

        What I know about this type of garment can be read here:
        http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser/Russia/KWC1.html


        >
        > The letnik should be a heavy linen? Any colour is fine? What about the
        > voshv? What sort of fabric could they be?
        >
        I would say that the letnik should be a medium-to-heavy weight linen as it
        is a summer garment. Any color is fine. The voshvy trim can be of
        complementary or contrasting color linen, or something more grand such as
        silk, satin, brocade, velvet, etc.

        My various sources have slightly different information about this garment:
        http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser/Russia/KWC3.html

        Voshvy and other adornments are addressed here:
        http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser/Russia/KRCdecor.html
        <http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser/Russia/KWC3.html>


        >
        > The odnoryadka? I can't really see what that is.
        >
        The odnoryadka is the long black coat with trailing floor-length sleeves.
        The terminology of this type of garment gets VERY complicated esp. by the
        Muscovite period and I have recorded what I know if it here:
        http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser/Russia/KWC4.html

        I hope this helps.

        At your service,

        Sofya


        ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

        Lisa M. Kies, MD aka Sofya la Rus, OL, CW, CSH, druzhinnitsa Kramolnikova
        Mason City, IA aka Shire of Heraldshill, Calontir
        ___
        http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser
        {o,o}
        "Si no necare, sana." "Mir znachit Pax Romanov"
        (__(|
        "Nasytivshimsya knizhnoj sladosti."
        -^-^-`
        ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Rosie
        ... Thanks so much! I shall procrastinate, uh, I mean meditate on all that and see what might come out of it. I have a bundle of fabric just about perfect for
        Message 3 of 6 , May 8, 2010
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          > Greetings from Sofya to Nawojka!

          >[and lots of handy info]


          Thanks so much! I shall procrastinate, uh, I mean meditate on all that and see what might come out of it. I have a bundle of fabric just about perfect for my daughter, but I think that will be for next year. I'm going to hit my stash to see if there's anything suitable for myself just as soon as my lord takes the kiddies out to do the shopping. And he thinks I'm going to be a good little wifey and wash the dishes, mwahahahhaha!


          Nawojka
        • Rosie
          Greetings, Sofya! Another question! ... Can you recommend anywhere to look for ideas on what sorts of patterns are acceptable? Thanks, Nawojka
          Message 4 of 6 , May 8, 2010
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            Greetings, Sofya!

            Another question!

            > The overdress ... may be patterned or plain.

            Can you recommend anywhere to look for ideas on what sorts of patterns are acceptable?

            Thanks,
            Nawojka
          • Lisa Kies
            Greetings from Sofya to Nawojka! ... In the 15th century, I believe Russia was importing silks from Italy, in addition to the traditional oriental silks. They
            Message 5 of 6 , May 8, 2010
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              Greetings from Sofya to Nawojka!

              On Sat, May 8, 2010 at 7:28 PM, Rosie <Rosie_0801@...> wrote:

              > Greetings, Sofya!
              >
              > Another question!
              >
              > > The overdress ... may be patterned or plain.
              >
              > Can you recommend anywhere to look for ideas on what sorts of patterns are
              > acceptable?
              >
              >
              In the 15th century, I believe Russia was importing silks from Italy, in
              addition to the traditional oriental silks. They may have also still be
              using the Byzantine-type brocades that were available to me in the 13th-14th
              century but I'm not sure about that.. So you could research Renaissance
              Italian fabric for that.

              As for patterns for home-printed (block-printed fabrics), I don't know of
              any surviving medieval Russian printed fabrics but you can get ideas for
              appropriate design motifs from manuscripts and embroidery.

              I'm having trouble finding suitable manuscripts on-line but as you're not in
              a hurry, you can look for this book:
              http://store.doverpublications.com/0486282589.html

              And here's some embroidery - most is older than the 15th century, but it may
              be inspirational:
              http://club-kaup.narod.ru/rec/archussr_drrus_bk/archussr_drrus_bk_table66.jpg
              http://club-kaup.narod.ru/rec/archussr_drrus_bk/archussr_drrus_bk_table67.jpg
              http://club-kaup.narod.ru/kaup_r_archussr_drrus_bk_4_table.html

              All the best,

              Sofya


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Rosie
              ... Yay, yay, yay! The fabric I have seems suitable. Not perfect, but not outrageously bad :) Someone is working up to a garb-make-fest! Just wanted to share!
              Message 6 of 6 , Jul 31, 2010
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                > > Can you recommend anywhere to look for ideas on what sorts of patterns are
                > > acceptable?
                > >
                > >
                > In the 15th century, I believe Russia was importing silks from Italy, in
                > addition to the traditional oriental silks. They may have also still be
                > using the Byzantine-type brocades that were available to me in the 13th-14th
                > century but I'm not sure about that.. So you could research Renaissance
                > Italian fabric for that.


                Yay, yay, yay! The fabric I have seems suitable. Not perfect, but not outrageously bad :) Someone is working up to a garb-make-fest!

                Just wanted to share!

                :)
                Nawojka
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