Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: panova?

Expand Messages
  • Jenn/Yana
    ... Fun, aren t they? :) ... Yep, the two on the left are. I m not sure what the one on the right is, it looks like she may be wearing two shirts, one over
    Message 1 of 11 , Jan 3, 2000
      >Guess who got a scanner for Christmas? :)

      Fun, aren't they? :)

      >http://www.geocities.com/~chrstnj/sca/panova.jpg
      >
      >Am I right? Are these panovas?

      Yep, the two on the left are. I'm not sure what the one on the right is,
      it looks like she may be wearing two shirts, one over the other. The
      outfit on the left is for "middle-aged women", the middle is for "youths"
      and the right one is for "girls". Note how the shirts only come down to
      the ankles or slightly higher. Predslava talks about this a bit in her
      article on women's clothing on her webpage. And who ever said that Russian
      clothing is too warm? Don't these outfits look like just the thing on a
      hot summer day?

      I have found it wise to be wary of the drawings in this book, however. The
      clothing pictures aren't drawn very accurately. Seams have a way of
      disappearing and such. Still, it is my current favorite book for Russian
      stuff. The jewelry and other drawings are excellent.

      --Yana
    • Diane S. Sawyer
      ... {snip} ... {snip} ... {snip} ... Oh, yes... linen rubakha, linen panova... very cool and comfy. Linen is THE summer fabric, as far as I m concerned. I
      Message 2 of 11 , Jan 3, 2000
        --- Jenn/Yana <jdmiller2@...> wrote:
        > From: Jenn/Yana <jdmiller2@...>
        >
        {snip}

        > >
        > >Am I right? Are these panovas?
        >
        {snip}
        > And who
        > ever said that Russian
        > clothing is too warm? Don't these outfits look like
        > just the thing on a
        > hot summer day?
        >
        {snip}
        >
        > --Yana

        Oh, yes... linen rubakha, linen panova... very cool
        and comfy. Linen is THE summer fabric, as far as I'm
        concerned. I seem to remember reading that in early
        period it was acceptable to wear just a belted
        rubakha, but I simply can't bring myself to do so...
        it feels too much like running around in my underwear.

        Tasha
        __________________________________________________
        Do You Yahoo!?
        Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
        http://messenger.yahoo.com
      • MHoll@xxx.xxx
        In a message dated 1/3/2000 9:50:38 PM Central Standard Time, ... Remember that most of Russia has a continental climate: as hot as down here in south Texas
        Message 3 of 11 , Jan 3, 2000
          In a message dated 1/3/2000 9:50:38 PM Central Standard Time,
          jdmiller2@... writes:

          > And who ever said that Russian
          > clothing is too warm? Don't these outfits look like just the thing on a
          > hot summer day?

          Remember that most of Russia has a continental climate: as hot as down here
          in south Texas (just not for as long), and as cold as Alaska in the winter
          (but not as long, either). You bet they'd have comfortable clothing!

          > I have found it wise to be wary of the drawings in this book, however. The
          > clothing pictures aren't drawn very accurately. <...>

          And I'm shocked that the "middle-aged woman" is showing some of her hair! How
          rude and improper! A married woman, shining her hair! ;-)

          Seriously, considering the heavy fines imposable on someone who pulls a
          married woman's headdress off and reveals her hair, it's unlikely, really,
          really unlikely, that a married woman would not wear a cap and/or veil (or
          something) to hide her hair *completely*. Apart from that...

          I do share Yana's skepticism about the panova, although I'd conceived the
          idea that it was a garment more common in early period, later fallen into
          disuse by the nobility, and finally relegated to country clothing. It may
          have been a ritual piece of clothing, but that's just a vague idea.

          Especially since the conjectural ritual is not described anywhere, except for
          a cryptic image on a silver bracelet.


          Predslava Vydrina
          Per fess embattled azure and gules, two otters passant or.
          <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/Predslava/RussianHistoryTriviaPage.html">Russ
          ian History Trivia Page</A>
          (http://members.aol.com/Predslava/RussianHistoryTriviaPage.html)
        • MHoll@xxx.xxx
          In a message dated 1/3/2000 10:20:09 PM Central Standard Time, ... And right you are! To describe the terrible destruction and dishonor inflicted on a city,
          Message 4 of 11 , Jan 3, 2000
            In a message dated 1/3/2000 10:20:09 PM Central Standard Time,
            tasha_medved@... writes:

            > I seem to remember reading that in early
            > period it was acceptable to wear just a belted
            > rubakha, but I simply can't bring myself to do so...
            > it feels too much like running around in my underwear.

            And right you are! To describe the terrible destruction and dishonor
            inflicted on a city, the Chronicles note that the residents were stripped
            "even to their shirts". So no, a woman would not be going around in her
            undershirt. Men, working in fields on on some other hot, sweaty task, yes,
            but a woman would not be walking around in her underwear.

            The question arises, of course, of what exactly constituted underwear, and
            what would do for upper? outer?wear in the summer. Were there undertunics
            under the tunics, so one could strip to the tunic, and yet not the
            undertunic? Were there lightweight jackets or something, or would linen over
            linen (tunic and overtunic) be cool enough?

            But in undershirts? Really! How shocking! :-)

            Predslava.
          • Patricia Hefner
            ... or ... to ... Oh, I love this picture! To heck with is it authentic on a Meridian day when it s 98 degrees in the shade and the heat index is 120. I m
            Message 5 of 11 , Jan 3, 2000
              > Guess who got a scanner for Christmas? :) Here's a picture of a panova
              or
              > two, at least, I think they are panovas. I scanned this in from
              > Arkheologia: Byt i kul'tura. More pics, and Russian choir music, to come
              to
              > a web site near you!
              >
              > http://www.geocities.com/~chrstnj/sca/panova.jpg
              >

              Oh, I love this picture! To heck with "is it authentic" on a Meridian day
              when it's 98 degrees in the shade and the heat index is 120. I'm planning to
              paint this even though I've read that they block-printed the things. I'd
              hate to nuke my hand with a block-cutter. Putting up with sprained ankles
              from dance is injury enough, thank you very much.

              Dekuji!
              Isabelle patricia.hefner@...
            • Jenn/Yana
              ... I ll share an easy and cheap way to print on fabric that I learned in a fibers and fabrics class that is just right for doing simple geometric designs on
              Message 6 of 11 , Jan 4, 2000
                Isabelle wrote:

                >I'm planning to
                >paint this even though I've read that they block-printed the things. I'd
                >hate to nuke my hand with a block-cutter.

                I'll share an easy and cheap way to print on fabric that I learned in a
                fibers and fabrics class that is just right for doing simple geometric
                designs on fabric, paper and whatever else you feel like printing. Get a
                block of 1/2" thick (or so) wood the size of your design. Take old, used
                *bicycle inner tubes* (thin black rubber) and cut your design out of them.
                Glue to the wood. You now have a durable printing block. You can use
                scissors or an exacto blade to cut the rubber, no need for special tools.
                Print using your favorite dyes/paints. I've only ever used t-shirt paint,
                but my teacher said she had used other substances to varying degrees of
                success. Test it on a sample piece of cloth first, wash and dry and see if
                you like the way it holds up.

                --Yana
              • Diane S. Sawyer
                ... Oh, excellent! Thanks for sharing! I use Delta Ceramcoat acrylic paint. It comes in a bazillion colors (I counted!), including gold and silver, and it
                Message 7 of 11 , Jan 4, 2000
                  --- Jenn/Yana <jdmiller2@...> wrote:
                  > From: Jenn/Yana <jdmiller2@...>
                  >
                  > Isabelle wrote:
                  >
                  > >I'm planning to
                  > >paint this even though I've read that they
                  > block-printed the things. I'd
                  > >hate to nuke my hand with a block-cutter.
                  >
                  > I'll share an easy and cheap way to print on fabric
                  > that I learned in a
                  > fibers and fabrics class that is just right for
                  > doing simple geometric
                  > designs on fabric, paper and whatever else you feel
                  > like printing. Get a
                  > block of 1/2" thick (or so) wood the size of your
                  > design. Take old, used
                  > *bicycle inner tubes* (thin black rubber) and cut
                  > your design out of them.
                  > Glue to the wood. You now have a durable printing
                  > block. You can use
                  > scissors or an exacto blade to cut the rubber, no
                  > need for special tools.
                  > Print using your favorite dyes/paints. I've only
                  > ever used t-shirt paint,
                  > but my teacher said she had used other substances to
                  > varying degrees of
                  > success. Test it on a sample piece of cloth first,
                  > wash and dry and see if
                  > you like the way it holds up.
                  >
                  > --Yana
                  >

                  Oh, excellent! Thanks for sharing!

                  I use Delta Ceramcoat acrylic paint. It comes in a
                  bazillion colors (I counted!), including gold and
                  silver, and it cleans up quickly. I would recommend
                  using a foam roller (look in the stenciling section of
                  the craft store) instead of dipping the stamp in the
                  paint; dipping makes it goopy. If you can't find a
                  roller, use a foam brush to load the stamp.

                  There are some foam stamps in the craft stores that
                  might work for your purposes, BTW, both open cell and
                  closed cell foam. The open cell foam takes a boatload
                  of paint to load it, just so you know.

                  Post pics when you get it done? Pretty please?

                  Tasha
                  __________________________________________________
                  Do You Yahoo!?
                  Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
                  http://messenger.yahoo.com
                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.