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panova?

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  • picsespoet17@xxxxx.xxx
    I m sorry to ask this question, and I know I m gonna sound really dumb for saying this but: What is a Panova???? I have not been keeping up on this
    Message 1 of 11 , Jan 3, 2000
      I'm sorry to ask this question, and I know I'm gonna sound really dumb for saying this but:

      What is a Panova????

      I have not been keeping up on this conversation, and I am really lost. It sounds like female garb. What time period was it worn in? What area of Russia? Did noble ladies wear it? What other clothes were commonly worn with it? If anyone can answer my questions, I would greatly appreciate it.

      Kseniia Nikolaevna

      ---------------------------------------------------
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    • Jenn/Yana
      ... Female clothing. Early time period, most books suggest approx 900-1400. Lower class clothing, worn over a long shirt (or two). In my opinion it isn t
      Message 2 of 11 , Jan 3, 2000
        >What is a Panova????
        >
        >I have not been keeping up on this conversation, and I am really lost. It
        >sounds like female garb. What time period was it worn in? What area of
        >Russia? Did noble ladies wear it? What other clothes were commonly worn with
        >it? If anyone can answer my questions, I would greatly appreciate it.

        Female clothing. Early time period, most books suggest approx 900-1400.
        Lower class clothing, worn over a long shirt (or two).

        In my opinion it isn't period at all, due to the fact that the only
        evidence we have of it is a single find of a very small fragment of checked
        cloth found near the hip/leg region of some female human remains. Some
        archaeologists have said it is a fragment of a panova/poneva, mostly
        because the fabric design resembles the fabric used in 19th century
        garments that were worn by Russian/Ukrainian peasants. I think it is very
        shaky evidence and sloppy archaeology. I do wear a panova occasionally,
        but when people ask (who actually are interested enough to listen to me
        rattle on), I am sure to tell them that it is only possibly period, not
        definitely period. Of course, I also have the problem/blessing that is
        Slavic garb, most people don't even know what Slavic garb is supposed to
        look like, much less know what time period it is. ;)

        --Yana
      • Christine Jacobs
        Guess who got a scanner for Christmas? :) Here s a picture of a panova or two, at least, I think they are panovas. I scanned this in from Arkheologia: Byt i
        Message 3 of 11 , Jan 3, 2000
          Guess who got a scanner for Christmas? :) Here's a picture of a panova or
          two, at least, I think they are panovas. I scanned this in from
          Arkheologia: Byt i kul'tura. More pics, and Russian choir music, to come to
          a web site near you!

          http://www.geocities.com/~chrstnj/sca/panova.jpg

          Am I right? Are these panovas?

          --------------------------------------------------------------------
          Kseniia Smol'nyanina mka: Christine Jacobs
          of Mountain Freehold chrstnj@...
          <http://www.geocities.com/~chrstnj>
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        • BanAvtai@xxx.xxx
          In a message dated 01/03/2000 9:02:23 PM Eastern Standard Time, chrstnj@geocities.com writes: I m horribly
          Message 4 of 11 , Jan 3, 2000
            In a message dated 01/03/2000 9:02:23 PM Eastern Standard Time,
            chrstnj@... writes:

            << Guess who got a scanner for Christmas? >>

            I'm horribly jealous! ::Sniffle::

            Yana, if I see you at Pennsic my ear is yours for as long as you rattle on.
            :-D

            Iu'liana
          • Jenn/Yana
            ... Fun, aren t they? :) ... Yep, the two on the left are. I m not sure what the one on the right is, it looks like she may be wearing two shirts, one over
            Message 5 of 11 , Jan 3, 2000
              >Guess who got a scanner for Christmas? :)

              Fun, aren't they? :)

              >http://www.geocities.com/~chrstnj/sca/panova.jpg
              >
              >Am I right? Are these panovas?

              Yep, the two on the left are. I'm not sure what the one on the right is,
              it looks like she may be wearing two shirts, one over the other. The
              outfit on the left is for "middle-aged women", the middle is for "youths"
              and the right one is for "girls". Note how the shirts only come down to
              the ankles or slightly higher. Predslava talks about this a bit in her
              article on women's clothing on her webpage. And who ever said that Russian
              clothing is too warm? Don't these outfits look like just the thing on a
              hot summer day?

              I have found it wise to be wary of the drawings in this book, however. The
              clothing pictures aren't drawn very accurately. Seams have a way of
              disappearing and such. Still, it is my current favorite book for Russian
              stuff. The jewelry and other drawings are excellent.

              --Yana
            • Diane S. Sawyer
              ... {snip} ... {snip} ... {snip} ... Oh, yes... linen rubakha, linen panova... very cool and comfy. Linen is THE summer fabric, as far as I m concerned. I
              Message 6 of 11 , Jan 3, 2000
                --- Jenn/Yana <jdmiller2@...> wrote:
                > From: Jenn/Yana <jdmiller2@...>
                >
                {snip}

                > >
                > >Am I right? Are these panovas?
                >
                {snip}
                > And who
                > ever said that Russian
                > clothing is too warm? Don't these outfits look like
                > just the thing on a
                > hot summer day?
                >
                {snip}
                >
                > --Yana

                Oh, yes... linen rubakha, linen panova... very cool
                and comfy. Linen is THE summer fabric, as far as I'm
                concerned. I seem to remember reading that in early
                period it was acceptable to wear just a belted
                rubakha, but I simply can't bring myself to do so...
                it feels too much like running around in my underwear.

                Tasha
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              • MHoll@xxx.xxx
                In a message dated 1/3/2000 9:50:38 PM Central Standard Time, ... Remember that most of Russia has a continental climate: as hot as down here in south Texas
                Message 7 of 11 , Jan 3, 2000
                  In a message dated 1/3/2000 9:50:38 PM Central Standard Time,
                  jdmiller2@... writes:

                  > And who ever said that Russian
                  > clothing is too warm? Don't these outfits look like just the thing on a
                  > hot summer day?

                  Remember that most of Russia has a continental climate: as hot as down here
                  in south Texas (just not for as long), and as cold as Alaska in the winter
                  (but not as long, either). You bet they'd have comfortable clothing!

                  > I have found it wise to be wary of the drawings in this book, however. The
                  > clothing pictures aren't drawn very accurately. <...>

                  And I'm shocked that the "middle-aged woman" is showing some of her hair! How
                  rude and improper! A married woman, shining her hair! ;-)

                  Seriously, considering the heavy fines imposable on someone who pulls a
                  married woman's headdress off and reveals her hair, it's unlikely, really,
                  really unlikely, that a married woman would not wear a cap and/or veil (or
                  something) to hide her hair *completely*. Apart from that...

                  I do share Yana's skepticism about the panova, although I'd conceived the
                  idea that it was a garment more common in early period, later fallen into
                  disuse by the nobility, and finally relegated to country clothing. It may
                  have been a ritual piece of clothing, but that's just a vague idea.

                  Especially since the conjectural ritual is not described anywhere, except for
                  a cryptic image on a silver bracelet.


                  Predslava Vydrina
                  Per fess embattled azure and gules, two otters passant or.
                  <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/Predslava/RussianHistoryTriviaPage.html">Russ
                  ian History Trivia Page</A>
                  (http://members.aol.com/Predslava/RussianHistoryTriviaPage.html)
                • MHoll@xxx.xxx
                  In a message dated 1/3/2000 10:20:09 PM Central Standard Time, ... And right you are! To describe the terrible destruction and dishonor inflicted on a city,
                  Message 8 of 11 , Jan 3, 2000
                    In a message dated 1/3/2000 10:20:09 PM Central Standard Time,
                    tasha_medved@... writes:

                    > I seem to remember reading that in early
                    > period it was acceptable to wear just a belted
                    > rubakha, but I simply can't bring myself to do so...
                    > it feels too much like running around in my underwear.

                    And right you are! To describe the terrible destruction and dishonor
                    inflicted on a city, the Chronicles note that the residents were stripped
                    "even to their shirts". So no, a woman would not be going around in her
                    undershirt. Men, working in fields on on some other hot, sweaty task, yes,
                    but a woman would not be walking around in her underwear.

                    The question arises, of course, of what exactly constituted underwear, and
                    what would do for upper? outer?wear in the summer. Were there undertunics
                    under the tunics, so one could strip to the tunic, and yet not the
                    undertunic? Were there lightweight jackets or something, or would linen over
                    linen (tunic and overtunic) be cool enough?

                    But in undershirts? Really! How shocking! :-)

                    Predslava.
                  • Patricia Hefner
                    ... or ... to ... Oh, I love this picture! To heck with is it authentic on a Meridian day when it s 98 degrees in the shade and the heat index is 120. I m
                    Message 9 of 11 , Jan 3, 2000
                      > Guess who got a scanner for Christmas? :) Here's a picture of a panova
                      or
                      > two, at least, I think they are panovas. I scanned this in from
                      > Arkheologia: Byt i kul'tura. More pics, and Russian choir music, to come
                      to
                      > a web site near you!
                      >
                      > http://www.geocities.com/~chrstnj/sca/panova.jpg
                      >

                      Oh, I love this picture! To heck with "is it authentic" on a Meridian day
                      when it's 98 degrees in the shade and the heat index is 120. I'm planning to
                      paint this even though I've read that they block-printed the things. I'd
                      hate to nuke my hand with a block-cutter. Putting up with sprained ankles
                      from dance is injury enough, thank you very much.

                      Dekuji!
                      Isabelle patricia.hefner@...
                    • Jenn/Yana
                      ... I ll share an easy and cheap way to print on fabric that I learned in a fibers and fabrics class that is just right for doing simple geometric designs on
                      Message 10 of 11 , Jan 4, 2000
                        Isabelle wrote:

                        >I'm planning to
                        >paint this even though I've read that they block-printed the things. I'd
                        >hate to nuke my hand with a block-cutter.

                        I'll share an easy and cheap way to print on fabric that I learned in a
                        fibers and fabrics class that is just right for doing simple geometric
                        designs on fabric, paper and whatever else you feel like printing. Get a
                        block of 1/2" thick (or so) wood the size of your design. Take old, used
                        *bicycle inner tubes* (thin black rubber) and cut your design out of them.
                        Glue to the wood. You now have a durable printing block. You can use
                        scissors or an exacto blade to cut the rubber, no need for special tools.
                        Print using your favorite dyes/paints. I've only ever used t-shirt paint,
                        but my teacher said she had used other substances to varying degrees of
                        success. Test it on a sample piece of cloth first, wash and dry and see if
                        you like the way it holds up.

                        --Yana
                      • Diane S. Sawyer
                        ... Oh, excellent! Thanks for sharing! I use Delta Ceramcoat acrylic paint. It comes in a bazillion colors (I counted!), including gold and silver, and it
                        Message 11 of 11 , Jan 4, 2000
                          --- Jenn/Yana <jdmiller2@...> wrote:
                          > From: Jenn/Yana <jdmiller2@...>
                          >
                          > Isabelle wrote:
                          >
                          > >I'm planning to
                          > >paint this even though I've read that they
                          > block-printed the things. I'd
                          > >hate to nuke my hand with a block-cutter.
                          >
                          > I'll share an easy and cheap way to print on fabric
                          > that I learned in a
                          > fibers and fabrics class that is just right for
                          > doing simple geometric
                          > designs on fabric, paper and whatever else you feel
                          > like printing. Get a
                          > block of 1/2" thick (or so) wood the size of your
                          > design. Take old, used
                          > *bicycle inner tubes* (thin black rubber) and cut
                          > your design out of them.
                          > Glue to the wood. You now have a durable printing
                          > block. You can use
                          > scissors or an exacto blade to cut the rubber, no
                          > need for special tools.
                          > Print using your favorite dyes/paints. I've only
                          > ever used t-shirt paint,
                          > but my teacher said she had used other substances to
                          > varying degrees of
                          > success. Test it on a sample piece of cloth first,
                          > wash and dry and see if
                          > you like the way it holds up.
                          >
                          > --Yana
                          >

                          Oh, excellent! Thanks for sharing!

                          I use Delta Ceramcoat acrylic paint. It comes in a
                          bazillion colors (I counted!), including gold and
                          silver, and it cleans up quickly. I would recommend
                          using a foam roller (look in the stenciling section of
                          the craft store) instead of dipping the stamp in the
                          paint; dipping makes it goopy. If you can't find a
                          roller, use a foam brush to load the stamp.

                          There are some foam stamps in the craft stores that
                          might work for your purposes, BTW, both open cell and
                          closed cell foam. The open cell foam takes a boatload
                          of paint to load it, just so you know.

                          Post pics when you get it done? Pretty please?

                          Tasha
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