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Re: The Czarnecki padded zupan

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  • Pan Zygmunt Nadratowski
    Message 1 of 6 , Oct 26, 2009
      <<On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 4:45 AM, "damien fegan" grendalpup@...
      Sun Oct 25, 2009 6:01 pm (PDT) wrote:

      The czarnecki zupan looks to me almost exactly like traditional Uzbeck and
      Turcoman padded chapans, even the fabric looks central asian. I have a few
      examples in my collection which date from the late 19thc- mid 20thc and have
      handled many others. They are generally padded with unspun cotton which is
      teased out of the bud. The padding on the central asian examples I have seen
      does not appear to be overly compacted as one would expect on padded armour
      or armour foundation garments( aketon/gambeson/padded jack style garments).
      I am however guessing as i have not seen the original, but photo's of it
      have fascinated me for years. I suppose we should ask the following

      What do we know of the providence of the garment?

      What other examples do we see of this in Polish art of the era?

      Is there any thing that might point to it being a Polish made garment in a
      Tatar style or just a souvineered(?)

      Tatar garment worn as a personal affectation?

      Was it given as a robe of honour( khalat) perhaps?

      What documentary evidence do we have for wearing padded zupans under armour
      in the era?
      Is there anything that points to this particular garment being designed to
      be worn with armour rather than being worn to stay warm?

      On a slight tangent, Scott mentioned in a previous post the practice of
      using cord in padded garments to be worn under harness. I would love to get
      some details of this as it is something I have experimented with over the
      years but have never found any surviving evidence of.
      purely playing devil's advocate

      Florian, excellent reply. I have x-posted this to another group where more
      light may be shed.

      I don't know of any other photos of such garments; the only one I know of is
      the Czarnecki example. As for the provenance of this, I'll have to check my
      source at home to see what it says.

      It is a well established fact that the poles used looted stuff, so it would
      be entirely possible that it came into his possession this way.
      Zygmunt Nadratowski
      "To rip the ugly, false, and weak from my soul and hurl it into hell. To
      pull the powerful, intrepid, and unstoppable from within and wear it like a
      tabard." - D. Sebastian
      "A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the
      advice" - Bill Cosby
      Want to learn to fight rapier or rattan? Ask me and I'll come & teach!
      SCA Polish Culture Resource: http://www.plcommonwealth.org

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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