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Re: [sig] Re: Question about Omega brooches

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  • Catherine Olanich Raymond
    ... That s true. An acquaintance of mine pointed out that the size would make it impractical to use them to secure an apron dress. -- Cathy Raymond
    Message 1 of 11 , Oct 6, 2009
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      On Tuesday 06 October 2009 11:46:35 am Barbara wrote:
      > Raymond gives measurements on his page: 2 3/8" x 1 1/2". Not very large
      > at all.

      That's true. An acquaintance of mine pointed out that the size would make it
      impractical to use them to secure an apron dress.


      --

      Cathy Raymond <cathy@...>

      "A great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do."
      --Walter Bagehot




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    • Catherine Olanich Raymond
      ... Perhaps that s what Raymond meant. However, I don t know of any of these brooches being associated with a Viking find, either in Scandinavia or anywhere
      Message 2 of 11 , Oct 6, 2009
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        On Tuesday 06 October 2009 10:58:28 am mfrykas@... wrote:
        > >The one that Raymond of Raymond's Quiet Press reproduces supposedly came
        > > from near Lake Ladoga. Here's a picture of his reproduction alongside
        > > the original find, which he says is from the collection of one of his
        > > customers:
        > >
        > > http://www.quietpress.com/Images4/X-95D.JPG
        > >
        > > and here's the web page (it's about 2/3rd of the way down the page:
        > >
        > > http://www.quietpress.com/vikingbrooch.html
        >
        > The following is based on pure speculation: It appears that these broaches
        > are small (unless those beads and shells are huge). Pins in this fashion
        > generally pierce fabric. My guess is that it was a pin that fastened
        > necklaces to the Viking apron dress.

        Perhaps that's what Raymond meant. However, I don't know of any of these
        brooches being associated with a Viking find, either in Scandinavia or anywhere
        else (Ireland, England). Lisa says they don't show up in Slavic graves,
        either. I don't even know whether they show up singly, in pairs, or in
        multiples in any graves where they have been found.

        --

        Cathy Raymond <cathy@...>

        "A great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do."
        --Walter Bagehot




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      • Catherine Olanich Raymond
        ... That s not quite right. They wore the peplos--an unshaped overdress like the garment of the ancient Romans and Greeks. With a peplos, you just pin your
        Message 3 of 11 , Oct 6, 2009
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          On Tuesday 06 October 2009 6:49:33 am H D wrote:
          > >Second, I don't know that the Finnic tribes wore apron dresses. The
          >
          > "Vikings" wore them, but the Slavs didn't.>
          >
          > My one and a half cents - the Finno-Ugric Livs, in the Baltics, wore apron
          > dresses.

          That's not quite right. They wore the peplos--an unshaped overdress like the
          garment of the ancient Romans and Greeks. With a peplos, you just pin your
          brooches directly into the cloth; you don't put the pin through special
          purpose loops as is the case with apron dresses. Finnish costume of the
          period is believed to have looked more like this:

          http://www.katajahovi.org/SatuHovi/pic/ope_0018.JPG

          The webpage where I found that picture describes the costume more, and the
          author's recreation of it:

          http://www.katajahovi.org/SatuHovi/muinaispuvunValmistaminen.html

          There are sketches of costumes based on other early Finnish finds here
          (unfortunately the page is in Finnish):

          http://www.student.oulu.fi/~jek/liitteet.html

          I've seen a reproduction of a 13th (?) Latvian costume that also included a
          peplos, but I can't find it right now.

          > They do appear to be with the 'tortoise' type brooches though, and
          > I've never seens pennanular broochs with such extended ends anywhere near
          > the region.

          As someone pointed out, the brooches tend to be small (the ring is about 2.5
          cm/1 inch across). That would be too small to easily use to fasten a peplos
          unless the fabric was finer than even period luxury fabrics could be.

          That's why it matters whether the brooches are found in pairs, since that
          would permit a bit of hypothesizing about their use. If they are found as
          singletons, maybe they closed the neckline of a tunic. If they really are
          found in pairs, perhaps they fastened bead strings or chains to the front of
          another garment. Without further information, though, the mystery will have
          to continue.




          --

          Cathy Raymond <cathy@...>

          "A great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do."
          --Walter Bagehot




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        • Quokkaqueen
          Resurrecting a thread from two(!) years ago: ... ... Hopefully I ve managed to put together some information (finally!) about these
          Message 4 of 11 , Sep 17, 2011
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            Resurrecting a thread from two(!) years ago:

            <<snip>>
            > There are a number finds of a kind of small penannular brooch with a large, trapezoidal ends that have turned up in Russia during the Viking Age, or possibly somewhat after that period. I've heard of them being called "Omega brooches" based on the shape. So far as I know, they've only been found in Russia.
            <<snip>>
            > Anyway, is anyone on the list familiar with any documentation involving this type of brooch?
            <<snip>>

            Hopefully I've managed to put together some information (finally!) about these brooches. It's mostly aimed at answering the questions of they are Viking Age, and were worn by Norsewomen (the answers seem to be 'no' and 'no'). But, it adds to some stuff I've written up for Slovo that might be useful:
            http://www.medieval-baltic.us/syulgam.pdf

            Hope it helps (or even better, inspires someone to look into Mordvin material culture which would be downright awesome!)

            Asfridhr, shameless self-promoter.
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