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Re: [sig] women religion

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  • Sfandra
    I don t know about Lithuania, but check out references to the Cult of Mary (ie: Mother of God). I ve come across it in several places, where the Divine
    Message 1 of 11 , Sep 2 10:45 AM
      I don't know about Lithuania, but check out references to the "Cult of Mary" (ie: Mother of God). I've come across it in several places, where the Divine Mother was MORE important in Church practice than dogma would lead you to think.

      --Sfandra



      ******************
      Posadnitsa Sfandra Dmitrieva Chernigova
      KOE, Maunche, Apprentice to Maitresse Irene LeNoir
      Haus Von Drakenklaue, Kingdom of the East
      ******************
      Never 'pearl' your butt.


      --- On Wed, 9/2/09, lori h-b/ raven <lhb17201@...> wrote:

      > From: lori h-b/ raven <lhb17201@...>
      > Subject: [sig] women religion
      > To: "Slav group" <sig@yahoogroups.com>
      > Date: Wednesday, September 2, 2009, 12:35 PM
      >
      > All,
      >  
      > I need to do a paper for my Women in Religion class and
      > wanted to concentrate on the religion of Lithuania. I know
      > that prior to 1385 it still held onto the pagan beliefs, at
      > times in the guise of Christianity. What I need to know and
      > be able to document that Goddess(s) were the revered ones
      > and not male gods.
      >  
      > The paper has to show where women fit into their religion
      > at that time. As an alternative if there is documentation I
      > can do anything about women in the period church.
      >  
      > thanks in advance,
      > raven
      >  
      >
      >  
      > After the game, the king and the pawn go into the same
      > box.
      >
      >
      >      
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >     mailto:sig-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
      >
      >
      >
    • lori h-b/ raven
      Yes, thank you, it s actually part of this class. I figured while researching my heritage I may as well use the information for class.   raven After the game,
      Message 2 of 11 , Sep 2 12:25 PM
        Yes, thank you, it's actually part of this class. I figured while researching my heritage I may as well use the information for class.
         
        raven


        After the game, the king and the pawn go into the same box.

        --- On Wed, 9/2/09, Sfandra <seonaid13@...> wrote:


        From: Sfandra <seonaid13@...>
        Subject: Re: [sig] women religion
        To: sig@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Wednesday, September 2, 2009, 1:45 PM


         



        I don't know about Lithuania, but check out references to the "Cult of Mary" (ie: Mother of God). I've come across it in several places, where the Divine Mother was MORE important in Church practice than dogma would lead you to think.

        --Sfandra

        ************ ******
        Posadnitsa Sfandra Dmitrieva Chernigova
        KOE, Maunche, Apprentice to Maitresse Irene LeNoir
        Haus Von Drakenklaue, Kingdom of the East
        ************ ******
        Never 'pearl' your butt.

        --- On Wed, 9/2/09, lori h-b/ raven <lhb17201@yahoo. com> wrote:

        > From: lori h-b/ raven <lhb17201@yahoo. com>
        > Subject: [sig] women religion
        > To: "Slav group" <sig@yahoogroups. com>
        > Date: Wednesday, September 2, 2009, 12:35 PM
        >
        > All,
        >  
        > I need to do a paper for my Women in Religion class and
        > wanted to concentrate on the religion of Lithuania. I know
        > that prior to 1385 it still held onto the pagan beliefs, at
        > times in the guise of Christianity. What I need to know and
        > be able to document that Goddess( s) were the revered ones
        > and not male gods.
        >  
        > The paper has to show where women fit into their religion
        > at that time. As an alternative if there is documentation I
        > can do anything about women in the period church.
        >  
        > thanks in advance,
        > raven
        >  
        >
        >  
        > After the game, the king and the pawn go into the same
        > box.
        >
        >
        >      
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------ --------- --------- ------
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >     mailto:sig-fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com
        >
        >
        >



















        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • jenne@fiedlerfamily.net
        Unfortunately, we have very few concrete records about pre-conversion pagan Lithuanian religion, and not enough to tell whether Gods or Goddesses were mostly
        Message 3 of 11 , Sep 2 4:24 PM
          Unfortunately, we have very few concrete records about pre-conversion
          pagan Lithuanian religion, and not enough to tell whether Gods or
          Goddesses were mostly revered. We know about sacred trees and about snakes
          fed with milk (you might make something out of that). Lots has been said
          about folksongs with pagan elements recorded in the 19th & 20th century.
          There's reverence for the Earth as Mother, but there's also Perkunas, who
          appears to be one of the usual thunder gods...

          You can try:
          - Lithuania ascending: a pagan empire within east-central Europe, 1295-1345

          Marja Gimbutas' work seems to be very (pardon the anti-pun) seminal in
          this area; you can also look into the modern Lithuanian neoPaganism called
          Romuva.

          But basically, I'd try doing a search in your library's resources.
          Patricia Monaghan' _Book of Goddesses and Heroines_ has some entries on
          Baltic goddesses but I would definitely take her work with a large grain
          of salt.

          This one:
          Goddesses in world mythology / Martha Ann, Dorothy Myers Imel.
          Has a section of entries on 'goddesses' of Eastern Europe, where you
          might be able to find more information -- you will want to check the
          citations and follow up through the bibliography

          There's also some stuff in Coulter & Turner's _Encyclopedia of Ancient
          Deities_ and if you have god/goddess names, you can also try the Guide to
          the Gods, by Leach.

          -- Jadwiga

          >
          > All,
          >  
          > I need to do a paper for my Women in Religion class and wanted to
          > concentrate on the religion of Lithuania. I know that prior to 1385 it
          > still held onto the pagan beliefs, at times in the guise of Christianity.
          > What I need to know and be able to document that Goddess(s) were the
          > revered ones and not male gods.
          >  
          > The paper has to show where women fit into their religion at that time. As
          > an alternative if there is documentation I can do anything about women in
          > the period church.
          >  
          > thanks in advance,
          > raven
          >  
          >
          >  
          > After the game, the king and the pawn go into the same box.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >


          --
          -- Jenne Heise / Jadwiga Zajaczkowa
          jenne@...
        • quokkaqueen
          Jan Dlugosz in the 15th century wrote about pagan practices, although he was discussing historic events, not things witnessed first hand. There is a brief
          Message 4 of 11 , Sep 3 3:27 AM
            Jan Dlugosz in the 15th century wrote about pagan practices, although he was discussing historic events, not things witnessed first hand.

            There is a brief quote from Dlugosz about men, women and children participating in a pagan ritual on page 287 of
            Dowden, Ken _European paganism: the realities of cult from antiquity to the Middle Ages_ (London, New York; Routledge, 2000)

            Another book that Jadwiga didn't mention, is the very readable _Roles of the Northern Goddess_ by Hilda Ellis Davidson (London; Routledge, 1998)

            A book that will frustrate you with it's sweeping statements and lack of references for its' assertions, is Jonas Trinkunas _Of Gods and Holidays: The Baltic Heritage_ (Vilnius : Tverme, 1999). It is an interesting read, but I wouldn't recommend it as a reference.

            Hope that helps a little,
            ~Asfridhr

            --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, jenne@... wrote:
            <<snip>>
            > > The paper has to show where women fit into their religion at that time. As
            > > an alternative if there is documentation I can do anything about women in
            > > the period church.
            ><<snip>>
          • Rachel Sampsel
            I know it s the Wikipedia of the mythological set, but pantheon.org has a lot of stuff regarding world cultures. Some of the articles have bibliographies or
            Message 5 of 11 , Sep 3 5:22 AM
              I know it's the Wikipedia of the mythological set, but pantheon.org has
              a lot of stuff regarding world cultures. Some of the articles have
              bibliographies or the ability to contact the editor, which may give you
              a good place to start. a quick check showed 38 articles for the Latvian
              region (I know it's north of Lithuania, but it's the closest I can get
              without doing some serious digging). They also have articles by name, so
              if you know the names of your goddess(es) you can run a check by that.

              Other than that, I have a deities book that *might* have some names and
              info, but I won't guarantee it. If you have names to give, I can check.

              Patches
            • panimagdalena56
              ... If anyone can tell me where I could get a copy of Jan Dlugosz s book, I d love to add it to my collection. Magdalena
              Message 6 of 11 , Sep 3 6:40 AM
                --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, "quokkaqueen" <quokkaqueen@...> wrote:
                >
                > Jan Dlugosz in the 15th century wrote about pagan practices, although he was discussing historic events, not things witnessed first hand.
                >
                If anyone can tell me where I could get a copy of Jan Dlugosz's book, I'd love to add it to my collection.

                Magdalena
              • Patoodle@aol.com
                Easier said than done, I m afraid.... I found this link from the publisher: http://www.impub.co.uk/dlug1.html Title of its version: The Annals of Jan Dlugosz:
                Message 7 of 11 , Sep 3 7:48 AM
                  Easier said than done, I'm afraid....



                  I found this link from the publisher: http://www.impub.co.uk/dlug1.html

                  Title of its version: "The Annals of Jan Dlugosz: An abridged edition in English of the great medieval chronicle"

                  Sample text: http://www.impub.co.uk/dlug3.html



                  Unfortunately, Amazon lists it as "unavailable," and I can't even find it in the Library of Congress. The publisher (which seems to be much more interested in selling books about spectroscopy) seems to be selling it for 60 pounds sterling (which is USD$97.50).



                  Darn it all, I want this book too!



                  Regards,

                  Patricia of Trakai



                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: panimagdalena56 <nunother56@...>
                  To: sig@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:40 am
                  Subject: [sig] Re: women religion







                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: panimagdalena56 <nunother56@...>
                  To: sig@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:40 am
                  Subject: [sig] Re: women religion




                  --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, "quokkaqueen" <quokkaqueen@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Jan Dlugosz in the 15th century wrote about pagan practices, although he was
                  discussing historic events, not things witnessed first hand.
                  >
                  If anyone can tell me where I could get a copy of Jan Dlugosz's book, I'd love
                  to add it to my collection.

                  Magdalena



                  ------------------------------------

                  Yahoo! Groups Links






                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • orlirva
                  Yes you have to be super careful because in the absence of facts there is often a rush of stories and speculations. For example, some sources talk about a
                  Message 8 of 11 , Sep 3 10:56 AM
                    Yes you have to be super careful because in the absence of facts there is often a rush of stories and speculations. For example, some sources talk about a female earth goddess but another source, a more academic source, said Whoa! there is no documentation supporting that at all, just a few old folk tales and morality stories about how we should respect the earth and its bounty which is analagous to a mother to us which some people seemed to have filled out with details from the ghia myth - there may have been no earth goddess at all, he said, or maybe there was.
                    I don't know, have no opinion, and don't remember details, just did some reading several years ago.

                    maybe check out http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Romuva/ - I have never been a member and have no idea what the group discusses.

                    Also, the slavic and baltic pantheon seem to be different, but just as the greeks struggled to relate their gods to the egyptian gods, there has been much effort to draw similiarities amoung various pantheons.
                    -Rick

                    --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, jenne@... wrote:
                    >
                    > Unfortunately, we have very few concrete records about pre-conversion
                    > pagan Lithuanian religion, and not enough to tell whether Gods or
                    > Goddesses were mostly revered. We know about sacred trees and about snakes
                    > fed with milk (you might make something out of that). Lots has been said
                    > about folksongs with pagan elements recorded in the 19th & 20th century.
                    > There's reverence for the Earth as Mother, but there's also Perkunas, who
                    > appears to be one of the usual thunder gods...
                    >
                    > You can try:
                    > - Lithuania ascending: a pagan empire within east-central Europe, 1295-1345
                    >
                    > Marja Gimbutas' work seems to be very (pardon the anti-pun) seminal in
                    > this area; you can also look into the modern Lithuanian neoPaganism called
                    > Romuva.
                    >
                    > But basically, I'd try doing a search in your library's resources.
                    > Patricia Monaghan' _Book of Goddesses and Heroines_ has some entries on
                    > Baltic goddesses but I would definitely take her work with a large grain
                    > of salt.
                    >
                    > This one:
                    > Goddesses in world mythology / Martha Ann, Dorothy Myers Imel.
                    > Has a section of entries on 'goddesses' of Eastern Europe, where you
                    > might be able to find more information -- you will want to check the
                    > citations and follow up through the bibliography
                    >
                    > There's also some stuff in Coulter & Turner's _Encyclopedia of Ancient
                    > Deities_ and if you have god/goddess names, you can also try the Guide to
                    > the Gods, by Leach.
                    >
                    > -- Jadwiga
                    >
                    > >
                    > > All,
                    > >  
                    > > I need to do a paper for my Women in Religion class and wanted to
                    > > concentrate on the religion of Lithuania. I know that prior to 1385 it
                    > > still held onto the pagan beliefs, at times in the guise of Christianity.
                    > > What I need to know and be able to document that Goddess(s) were the
                    > > revered ones and not male gods.
                    > >  
                    > > The paper has to show where women fit into their religion at that time. As
                    > > an alternative if there is documentation I can do anything about women in
                    > > the period church.
                    > >  
                    > > thanks in advance,
                    > > raven
                    > >  
                    > >
                    > >  
                    > > After the game, the king and the pawn go into the same box.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    > --
                    > -- Jenne Heise / Jadwiga Zajaczkowa
                    > jenne@...
                    >
                  • jenne@fiedlerfamily.net
                    Annals of Jan Dlugoz claims to be available from the publisher: http://www.impublications.com/shop/the-annals-of-jan-dlugosz.html ... -- -- Jenne Heise /
                    Message 9 of 11 , Sep 3 12:13 PM
                      Annals of Jan Dlugoz claims to be available from the publisher:
                      http://www.impublications.com/shop/the-annals-of-jan-dlugosz.html

                      > --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, "quokkaqueen" <quokkaqueen@...> wrote:
                      >>
                      >> Jan Dlugosz in the 15th century wrote about pagan practices, although he
                      >> was discussing historic events, not things witnessed first hand.
                      >>
                      > If anyone can tell me where I could get a copy of Jan Dlugosz's book, I'd
                      > love to add it to my collection.
                      >
                      > Magdalena
                      >
                      >


                      --
                      -- Jenne Heise / Jadwiga Zajaczkowa
                      jenne@...
                    • jenne@fiedlerfamily.net
                      FYI, this is the worldcat.org record for it, http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/37577645&referer=brief_results so if you have access to ILL, you might be able to at
                      Message 10 of 11 , Sep 3 12:17 PM
                        FYI, this is the worldcat.org record for it,
                        http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/37577645&referer=brief_results

                        so if you have access to ILL, you might be able to at least borrow it.

                        >
                        > I found this link from the publisher: http://www.impub.co.uk/dlug1.html
                        >
                        > Title of its version: "The Annals of Jan Dlugosz: An abridged edition in
                        > English of the great medieval chronicle"
                        >
                        > Sample text: http://www.impub.co.uk/dlug3.html
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Unfortunately, Amazon lists it as "unavailable," and I can't even find it
                        > in the Library of Congress. The publisher (which seems to be much more
                        > interested in selling books about spectroscopy) seems to be selling it for
                        > 60 pounds sterling (which is USD$97.50).
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Darn it all, I want this book too!
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Regards,
                        >
                        > Patricia of Trakai
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: panimagdalena56 <nunother56@...>
                        > To: sig@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:40 am
                        > Subject: [sig] Re: women religion
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: panimagdalena56 <nunother56@...>
                        > To: sig@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:40 am
                        > Subject: [sig] Re: women religion
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, "quokkaqueen" <quokkaqueen@...> wrote:
                        >>
                        >> Jan Dlugosz in the 15th century wrote about pagan practices, although he
                        >> was
                        > discussing historic events, not things witnessed first hand.
                        >>
                        > If anyone can tell me where I could get a copy of Jan Dlugosz's book, I'd
                        > love
                        > to add it to my collection.
                        >
                        > Magdalena
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ------------------------------------
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >


                        --
                        -- Jenne Heise / Jadwiga Zajaczkowa
                        jenne@...
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