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Re: Names around 10th Century Novgorod

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  • Jenna
    Yes, thank you, however I now have grammar questions! I have enough issues with English grammar, so Russian is a doozy. ;) I would like to achieve Vladimir
    Message 1 of 6 , Jul 17, 2009
      Yes, thank you, however I now have grammar questions! I have enough issues with English grammar, so Russian is a doozy. ;)

      I would like to achieve "Vladimir son of Dmitrii Bratovich", which version is correct/best?

      Vladimir Dmitr'ev Bratovich
      Vladimir syn Dmitrii Bratovich
      Vladimir Dmitrego Bratovich
      Vladimir Dmitr'evich
      Vladimir Dmitr'evich Bratovich
      Vladimir Dmitr'ev syn Bratovich

      Also, what would be the best form for "Ilariia the Baker, wife of Vladimir Dmitr'evich" (or whichever of the above are correct)?

      Ilariia Kolachnikova Vladimiria zhena Dmitr'eva
      Ilariia Vladimiria zhena Dmitr'eva Kolachnikova
      Ilariia Vladimiria zhena Dmitr'ev

      or something else?

      I greatly appreciate the help!

      Thanks,
      Brenna
    • Paul W Goldschmidt
      First of all, let s be clear that we are not doing 10th century or Novgorodian names. If you want a period 10th century Novgorod name, you two would just be
      Message 2 of 6 , Jul 18, 2009
        First of all, let's be clear that we are not doing 10th century or
        Novgorodian names.

        If you want a period 10th century Novgorod name, you two would just
        be Vladimir and Ilariia, but the SCA will want a byname.

        So, instead, let's talk about 16th century Moscovite names....


        At 11:28 PM 7/17/2009, you wrote:
        >Yes, thank you, however I now have grammar questions! I have enough
        >issues with English grammar, so Russian is a doozy. ;)
        >
        >I would like to achieve "Vladimir son of Dmitrii Bratovich", which
        >version is correct/best?
        >
        >Vladimir Dmitr'ev Bratovich
        >Vladimir syn Dmitrii Bratovich
        >Vladimir Dmitrego Bratovich
        >Vladimir Dmitr'evich
        >Vladimir Dmitr'evich Bratovich
        >Vladimir Dmitr'ev syn Bratovich

        Of the examples above, I like the last one (Vladimir Dmitr'ev syn
        Bratovich) best. #4 (Vladimir Dmitr'evich) is grammatically correct
        and appropriate for 14th century Novgorod or 10th century Kiev.

        >Also, what would be the best form for "Ilariia the Baker, wife of
        >Vladimir Dmitr'evich" (or whichever of the above are correct)?
        >
        >Ilariia Kolachnikova Vladimiria zhena Dmitr'eva
        >Ilariia Vladimiria zhena Dmitr'eva Kolachnikova
        >Ilariia Vladimiria zhena Dmitr'ev

        I'm assuming that Vladimir is the baker (in period, Ilariia would
        hardly want to advertise the idea of being a free agent, especially
        if she is already attaching herself to her husband), so I like option
        #2 the best. One could layer more on it, but I think it tells the
        story sufficiently well.

        Without the baker-bit, you could go with Ilariia Vladimira zhena
        Dmitr'eva or Ilariia Vladimira zhena Dmitr'eva syna Bratovicha.


        In Service,
        Paul Wickenden
      • Jenna
        Understandable, sounds like a plan :) Where to begin? Again, thank you very much for the help & advice.
        Message 3 of 6 , Jul 19, 2009
          Understandable, sounds like a plan :)

          Where to begin?

          Again, thank you very much for the help & advice.

          --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, Paul W Goldschmidt <goldschp@...> wrote:
          >
          > First of all, let's be clear that we are not doing 10th century or
          > Novgorodian names.
          >
          > If you want a period 10th century Novgorod name, you two would just
          > be Vladimir and Ilariia, but the SCA will want a byname.
          >
          > So, instead, let's talk about 16th century Moscovite names....
        • spmaiorca@cox.net
          ... Is a name and patricnomic
          Message 4 of 6 , Jul 20, 2009
            ---- Jenna <jenna.baranowski@...> wrote:
            > Yes, thank you, however I now have grammar questions! I have enough issues with English grammar, so Russian is a doozy. ;)
            >
            > I would like to achieve "Vladimir son of Dmitrii Bratovich", which version is correct/best?
            >

            > Vladimir Dmitr'evich
            >
            Is a name and patricnomic
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