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RE: [sig] Russian Alternate Titles List Update

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  • christopher chastain
    Lady Sofya, Im confused, why is nt knight considered a title or am I thinking the wrong way? Im not following the reasoning here. I usually just lurk but this
    Message 1 of 12 , Feb 3, 2009
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      Lady Sofya,

      Im confused, why is'nt knight considered a title or am I thinking the wrong way? Im not following the reasoning here. I usually just lurk but this drew my interest





      Yours in Humble Service,
      Dmitrii Zarekoi Ivanov













      To: sig@yahoogroups.com
      From: lkies@...
      Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 20:49:36 -0500
      Subject: [sig] Russian Alternate Titles List Update





      Greetings from Sofya!

      The results of the Russian Alternate Titles List Revision are available on the November 2008 LoAR:
      http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2008/11/08-11cl.html

      Although the key titles of "masteritsa" and "boiarin/boiarynia" were returned (and are being prepared for re-submission), many of the other proposed titles were accepted!

      I hope you find them useful.

      At your service,

      Sofya

      ----------------------------------------------------------
      Lisa M. Kies, MD aka HL Sofya la Rus, CW, CSH, uchenitsa Kramolnikova
      Mason City, IA aka Shire of Heraldshill, Calontir
      http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser
      "Si no necare, sana." "Mir znachit Pax Romanov"
      ----------------------------------------------------------

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








      _________________________________________________________________
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      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Yevgeniya Pechenaya
      This is awesome! i was actually having a heated discussion on whether or not i can say Velikii Kniaz in wording of a scroll instead of Tsar, which is a late
      Message 2 of 12 , Feb 3, 2009
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        This is awesome! i was actually having a heated discussion on whether or not i can say Velikii Kniaz in wording of a scroll instead of Tsar, which is a late period term. I'm so glad to hear of these changes.

        Lada

        Oooooh...
        SHINY!

        --- On Tue, 2/3/09, L.M. Kies <lkies@...> wrote:

        From: L.M. Kies <lkies@...>
        Subject: [sig] Russian Alternate Titles List Update
        To: sig@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Tuesday, February 3, 2009, 8:49 PM











        Greetings from Sofya!



        The results of the Russian Alternate Titles List Revision are available on the November 2008 LoAR:

        http://heraldry. sca.org/loar/ 2008/11/08- 11cl.html



        Although the key titles of "masteritsa" and "boiarin/boiarynia" were returned (and are being prepared for re-submission) , many of the other proposed titles were accepted!



        I hope you find them useful.



        At your service,



        Sofya



        ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

        Lisa M. Kies, MD aka HL Sofya la Rus, CW, CSH, uchenitsa Kramolnikova

        Mason City, IA aka Shire of Heraldshill, Calontir

        http://www.strangel ove.net/~ kieser

        "Si no necare, sana." "Mir znachit Pax Romanov"

        ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





























        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Jennifer Nelson Kemp
        Go Sofya!!! Glad to see some progress has been made...course I ll have to wait on the final outcome of the Boier discussion. Ianuk ... [Non-text portions of
        Message 3 of 12 , Feb 3, 2009
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          Go Sofya!!! Glad to see some progress has been made...course I'll have to
          wait on the final outcome of the Boier discussion.

          Ianuk

          On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 7:21 PM, Yevgeniya Pechenaya <ladie_lada@...>wrote:

          > This is awesome! i was actually having a heated discussion on whether or
          > not i can say Velikii Kniaz in wording of a scroll instead of Tsar, which is
          > a late period term. I'm so glad to hear of these changes.
          >
          > Lada
          >
          > Oooooh...
          > SHINY!
          >
          > --- On Tue, 2/3/09, L.M. Kies <lkies@... <lkies%40jumpgate.net>>
          > wrote:
          >
          > From: L.M. Kies <lkies@... <lkies%40jumpgate.net>>
          >
          > Subject: [sig] Russian Alternate Titles List Update
          > To: sig@yahoogroups.com <sig%40yahoogroups.com>
          > Date: Tuesday, February 3, 2009, 8:49 PM
          >
          > Greetings from Sofya!
          >
          > The results of the Russian Alternate Titles List Revision are available on
          > the November 2008 LoAR:
          >
          > http://heraldry. sca.org/loar/ 2008/11/08- 11cl.html
          >
          > Although the key titles of "masteritsa" and "boiarin/boiarynia" were
          > returned (and are being prepared for re-submission) , many of the other
          > proposed titles were accepted!
          >
          > I hope you find them useful.
          >
          > At your service,
          >
          > Sofya
          >
          > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
          >
          > Lisa M. Kies, MD aka HL Sofya la Rus, CW, CSH, uchenitsa Kramolnikova
          >
          > Mason City, IA aka Shire of Heraldshill, Calontir
          >
          > http://www.strangel ove.net/~ <http://ove.net/%7E> kieser
          >
          > "Si no necare, sana." "Mir znachit Pax Romanov"
          >
          > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • L.M. Kies
          Greetings from Sofya, ... I believe the conclusion of the LoAR is that druzhinnik is not a title and therefore not a suitable Russian equivalent for the
          Message 4 of 12 , Feb 3, 2009
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            Greetings from Sofya,

            >Im confused, why is'nt knight considered a title or am I thinking the wrong way?

            I believe the conclusion of the LoAR is that "druzhinnik" is not a title and therefore not a suitable Russian equivalent for the title Knight. Since I have only one period source of this term that largely died out in Kievan period, I have no basis to debate the point, nor am I inclined to try again to get it passed and thereby inflict in on later period personas. So for now, Russian Knights must settle for the just-as-poorly-documented and un-Russian title Rytsar. (Until I manage to get boiarin/boiarynia passed.)

            At your service,

            Sofya


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • christopher chastain
            Thank you Lady Sofya, your work is awesome and I wish you all the luck. Yours in Humble Service, Dmitrii Zarekoi Ivanov Russia is a mystery inside a riddle
            Message 5 of 12 , Feb 3, 2009
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              Thank you Lady Sofya, your work is awesome and I wish you all the luck.





              Yours in Humble Service,
              Dmitrii Zarekoi Ivanov
              "Russia is a mystery inside a riddle wrapped in a enigma!" Winston Churchill













              To: sig@yahoogroups.com
              From: lkies@...
              Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 21:22:26 -0500
              Subject: RE: [sig] Russian Alternate Titles List Update





              Greetings from Sofya,

              >Im confused, why is'nt knight considered a title or am I thinking the wrong way?

              I believe the conclusion of the LoAR is that "druzhinnik" is not a title and therefore not a suitable Russian equivalent for the title Knight. Since I have only one period source of this term that largely died out in Kievan period, I have no basis to debate the point, nor am I inclined to try again to get it passed and thereby inflict in on later period personas. So for now, Russian Knights must settle for the just-as-poorly-documented and un-Russian title Rytsar. (Until I manage to get boiarin/boiarynia passed.)

              At your service,

              Sofya

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








              _________________________________________________________________
              Want to do more with Windows Live? Learn �10 hidden secrets� from Jamie.
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            • Tim Nalley
              The three in my Kingdom use Syr....I tried to talk them into the unholy version Tsyr, but they all said it was wrooooooong, which it is! Best Regards, dok
              Message 6 of 12 , Feb 3, 2009
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                The three in my Kingdom use Syr....I tried to talk them into the unholy version Tsyr, but they all said it was wrooooooong, which it is!

                Best Regards,
                'dok
                "Dreams are only the realities of yesterday waiting to happen"

                --- On Tue, 2/3/09, L.M. Kies <lkies@...> wrote:

                From: L.M. Kies <lkies@...>
                Subject: RE: [sig] Russian Alternate Titles List Update
                To: sig@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Tuesday, February 3, 2009, 9:22 PM






                Greetings from Sofya,

                >Im confused, why is'nt knight considered a title or am I thinking the wrong way?

                I believe the conclusion of the LoAR is that "druzhinnik" is not a title and therefore not a suitable Russian equivalent for the title Knight. Since I have only one period source of this term that largely died out in Kievan period, I have no basis to debate the point, nor am I inclined to try again to get it passed and thereby inflict in on later period personas. So for now, Russian Knights must settle for the just-as-poorly- documented and un-Russian title Rytsar. (Until I manage to get boiarin/boiarynia passed.)

                At your service,

                Sofya

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


















                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Yevgeniya Pechenaya
                There are 2 other Russian words for Knight that may be applicable: Vityaz - this word i think would be an appropriate equivalent to Knight since this word was
                Message 7 of 12 , Feb 3, 2009
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                  There are 2 other Russian words for Knight that may be applicable:
                  Vityaz - this word i think would be an appropriate equivalent to Knight since this word was used to refer to the better soldiers or knights in our SCA case. I can see if i can look up more references to the exact use of the word.
                  or
                  Bogatyr' (this i feel is less appropriate since it refers more to a hero than a knight)

                  Lada

                  Oooooh...
                  SHINY!

                  --- On Tue, 2/3/09, L.M. Kies <lkies@...> wrote:

                  From: L.M. Kies <lkies@...>
                  Subject: RE: [sig] Russian Alternate Titles List Update
                  To: sig@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Tuesday, February 3, 2009, 9:22 PM











                  Greetings from Sofya,



                  >Im confused, why is'nt knight considered a title or am I thinking the wrong way?



                  I believe the conclusion of the LoAR is that "druzhinnik" is not a title and therefore not a suitable Russian equivalent for the title Knight. Since I have only one period source of this term that largely died out in Kievan period, I have no basis to debate the point, nor am I inclined to try again to get it passed and thereby inflict in on later period personas. So for now, Russian Knights must settle for the just-as-poorly- documented and un-Russian title Rytsar. (Until I manage to get boiarin/boiarynia passed.)



                  At your service,



                  Sofya



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





























                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Sfandra
                  ... LOL! My initial thought for bogatyr was save that for the loonies who are king more than twice! Colloquially, we call them super-dukes or
                  Message 8 of 12 , Feb 4, 2009
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                    > Bogatyr' (this i feel is less appropriate since it
                    > refers more to a hero than a knight)
                    >
                    > Lada

                    LOL! My initial thought for "bogatyr" was "save that for the loonies who are king more than twice!" Colloquially, we call them "super-dukes" or "insane".... ;p

                    --Sfandra


                    ******************
                    Posadnitsa Sfandra Dmitrieva Chernigova
                    KOE, Maunche, Apprentice to Maitresse Irene LeNoir
                    Haus Von Drakenklaue
                    Kingdom of the East
                    ******************
                    Never 'pearl' your butt.
                  • Danks Cole
                    I was wondering if somebody could post the proper pronunciation for these titles. Just when I get used to saying and spelling pomestnik...hehe Vlakh ...
                    Message 9 of 12 , Feb 4, 2009
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                      I was wondering if somebody could post the proper pronunciation for
                      these titles. Just when I get used to saying and spelling pomestnik...hehe

                      Vlakh

                      L.M. Kies wrote:

                      > Greetings from Sofya!
                      >
                      > The results of the Russian Alternate Titles List Revision are
                      > available on the November 2008 LoAR:
                      > http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2008/11/08-11cl.html
                      > <http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2008/11/08-11cl.html>
                      >
                      > Although the key titles of "masteritsa" and "boiarin/boiarynia" were
                      > returned (and are being prepared for re-submission), many of the other
                      > proposed titles were accepted!
                      >
                      > I hope you find them useful.
                      >
                      > At your service,
                      >
                      > Sofya
                      >
                      > ----------------------------------------------------------
                      > Lisa M. Kies, MD aka HL Sofya la Rus, CW, CSH, uchenitsa Kramolnikova
                      > Mason City, IA aka Shire of Heraldshill, Calontir
                      > http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser <http://www.strangelove.net/%7Ekieser>
                      > "Si no necare, sana." "Mir znachit Pax Romanov"
                      > ----------------------------------------------------------
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      >
                      >
                      >No virus found in this incoming message.
                      >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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                      >


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • L.M. Kies
                      Someone (wink) has already updated the titles on the Russian Knowledge Pages, along with pronunciations:
                      Message 10 of 12 , Feb 4, 2009
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                        Someone (wink) has already updated the titles on the Russian Knowledge Pages, along with pronunciations:
                        http://russiansig.wikispaces.com/SCA+Alternative+Titles

                        Oh, and Pomestnik is still on the list - particularly suitable for late period personas.

                        Sofya

                        >
                        >I was wondering if somebody could post the proper pronunciation for
                        these titles. Just when I get used to saying and spelling pomestnik...hehe

                        Vlakh

                        L.M. Kies wrote:

                        > Greetings from Sofya!
                        >
                        > The results of the Russian Alternate Titles List Revision are
                        > available on the November 2008 LoAR:
                        > http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2008/11/08-11cl.html
                        > < " target=_new>http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2008/11/08-11cl.html>
                        >



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Danks Cole
                        I m late 10th, so Dvorianin seems most appropriate... Dvorianin Vlakh Drugov syn Izmaragdov ... From: L.M. Kies To: sig@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday,
                        Message 11 of 12 , Feb 4, 2009
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                          I'm late 10th, so Dvorianin seems most appropriate...

                          Dvorianin Vlakh Drugov syn Izmaragdov




                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: L.M. Kies
                          To: sig@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 10:36 PM
                          Subject: RE: Re: [sig] Russian Alternate Titles List Update


                          Someone (wink) has already updated the titles on the Russian Knowledge Pages, along with pronunciations:
                          http://russiansig.wikispaces.com/SCA+Alternative+Titles

                          Oh, and Pomestnik is still on the list - particularly suitable for late period personas.

                          Sofya

                          >
                          >I was wondering if somebody could post the proper pronunciation for
                          these titles. Just when I get used to saying and spelling pomestnik...hehe

                          Vlakh

                          L.M. Kies wrote:

                          > Greetings from Sofya!
                          >
                          > The results of the Russian Alternate Titles List Revision are
                          > available on the November 2008 LoAR:
                          > http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2008/11/08-11cl.html
                          > < " target=_new>http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2008/11/08-11cl.html>
                          >

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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