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Re: Another question about names.

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  • gigglesheep
    Pardon my ignorance, but what are palatalized and so on vowels? Also Tatiana happens to be my real name and it is obviously spelled with i . Sofya is
    Message 1 of 23 , Nov 8, 2008
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      Pardon my ignorance, but what are "palatalized" and so on vowels?

      Also "Tatiana" happens to be my real name and it is obviously spelled
      with "i". Sofya is probably right, I need to stick to either "i"
      or "y" when spelling both names.

      Thank you everybody for the input.

      Tatiana



      --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, "aldo" <turanomar@...> wrote:
      >
      > Dorogaia Tatiana, u Vas voznikaiut takie voprosy!!!
      > Actually in the respelling of Cyrillic in English the convention is
      that the"palatalized" vowels add I to to the non-palatalized ones and
      not Y. Tho I agree that in English I has sometimes ambiguous
      pronunciation issues.In any case this has been consecrated at the
      Cambridge University since years..
      >
      > Do svidan'ia.
      >
      > Aldo
      >
      >
    • aldo
      E (as in HELL) is a pure vowel and YE (as in YELL) is palatalized . As u know in Russian you have following vowels: А Э Ы О У which are pure vowels
      Message 2 of 23 , Nov 8, 2008
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        E (as in HELL) is a pure vowel and YE (as in YELL) is "palatalized".
        As u know in Russian you have following vowels:
        А Э Ы О У

        which are "pure" vowels and

        Я Е И ё (this latter does not appear at the beginning of a word) Ю
        which are the same as the first row but "palatalized"
        while Ь is used to palatalize consonants and trasnliterated as '
        finally Й is a semivowel appearing only in diphtongs.
        The convention to transliteration are of above refers to Intern. Lingu. Society who indicate A E I (special U-I) O U for pure and YA YE YI YO YU for palatalized but Simon Franklin, Lecturer of Slavonic Studies at the Univ. of Cambridge (see WRITING, SOCIETY AND CULTURE IN EARKLY RUS, C. 950-1300, Cambridge 2002) recommends I instead of Y and to bneglect ' as in English it may cause some confusion in the students.


        Ciao

        Aldo


        ----- Original Message -----
        From: gigglesheep
        To: sig@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 3:53 PM
        Subject: [sig] Re: Another question about names.


        Pardon my ignorance, but what are "palatalized" and so on vowels?

        Also "Tatiana" happens to be my real name and it is obviously spelled
        with "i". Sofya is probably right, I need to stick to either "i"
        or "y" when spelling both names.

        Thank you everybody for the input.

        Tatiana

        --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, "aldo" <turanomar@...> wrote:
        >
        > Dorogaia Tatiana, u Vas voznikaiut takie voprosy!!!
        > Actually in the respelling of Cyrillic in English the convention is
        that the"palatalized" vowels add I to to the non-palatalized ones and
        not Y. Tho I agree that in English I has sometimes ambiguous
        pronunciation issues.In any case this has been consecrated at the
        Cambridge University since years..
        >
        > Do svidan'ia.
        >
        > Aldo
        >
        >





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • gigglesheep
        Awesome! Had no clue, quite ashamed, my own language! Where can I obtain some literature on the subject? Tat
        Message 3 of 23 , Nov 8, 2008
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          Awesome!
          Had no clue, quite ashamed, my own language! Where can I obtain some
          literature on the subject?

          Tat

          --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, "aldo" <turanomar@...> wrote:
          >
          > E (as in HELL) is a pure vowel and YE (as in YELL) is "palatalized".
          > As u know in Russian you have following vowels:
          > А Э Ы О У
          >
          > which are "pure" vowels and
          >

          >
          > Aldo
          >
          >
        • spmaiorca@cox.net
          ... hi, Vladimirovich would be a bad choice as my persona is Romanian. I m hoping some one would corect me if I am wrong but Vladescu would be a last name
          Message 4 of 23 , Nov 8, 2008
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            ---- Tatiana Golter <dogspell@...> wrote:
            > "Vladesku" is a Romanian/Moldovian last name, derived from "Vlad", but last
            > name nevertheless. Patronimic form from "Vladimir" is "Vladimirovich". So
            > you'll have your first name - Nicodim (pronounced Neecodeem) then your
            > patronim - Vladimirovich, then you will still need the last name.
            > Please, feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
            hi,
            Vladimirovich would be a bad choice as my persona is Romanian.
            I'm hoping some one would corect me if I am wrong but Vladescu would be a last name formed from a Romanian patrinomic. however after seeing this guy's name http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tudor_Vladimirescu
            Tudor Vladimirescu was born in Vladimir, Gorj county Romania He is post period but the entomolgy of his name may help me decide wethr or no to use Vladescu. An alternitive name I have considered have been Flroescu.
            _Nicodem
          • aldo
            I forgot to add (this is a big error on my side and I apologize) that the special Russian I is the SOLE vowel to be transliterated as Y. Therefore the hard
            Message 5 of 23 , Nov 9, 2008
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              I forgot to add (this is a big error on my side and I apologize) that the special Russian I is the SOLE vowel to be transliterated as Y.
              Therefore the hard Nominative Masculine Singular desinence of most common adjectives will be transliterated as -YI and by the same token will be Plurals as -YE.
              Dear gigglesheep usually a languagespeaker has no time or interest to investigate the languages he uses and therefore it is not so "awesome" as u say not to have ever made an anatomy of ur own language. My opinion is: Would it be useful to do it? If u study languages for other purposes than speaking it, it is worth while...

              Ciao

              Aldo
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: aldo
              To: sig@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 5:26 PM
              Subject: Re: [sig] Re: Another question about names.


              E (as in HELL) is a pure vowel and YE (as in YELL) is "palatalized".
              As u know in Russian you have following vowels:
              А Э Ы О У

              which are "pure" vowels and

              Я Е И ё (this latter does not appear at the beginning of a word) Ю
              which are the same as the first row but "palatalized"
              while Ь is used to palatalize consonants and trasnliterated as '
              finally Й is a semivowel appearing only in diphtongs.
              The convention to transliteration are of above refers to Intern. Lingu. Society who indicate A E I (special U-I) O U for pure and YA YE YI YO YU for palatalized but Simon Franklin, Lecturer of Slavonic Studies at the Univ. of Cambridge (see WRITING, SOCIETY AND CULTURE IN EARKLY RUS, C. 950-1300, Cambridge 2002) recommends I instead of Y and to bneglect ' as in English it may cause some confusion in the students.

              Ciao

              Aldo

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: gigglesheep
              To: sig@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 3:53 PM
              Subject: [sig] Re: Another question about names.

              Pardon my ignorance, but what are "palatalized" and so on vowels?

              Also "Tatiana" happens to be my real name and it is obviously spelled
              with "i". Sofya is probably right, I need to stick to either "i"
              or "y" when spelling both names.

              Thank you everybody for the input.

              Tatiana

              --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, "aldo" <turanomar@...> wrote:
              >
              > Dorogaia Tatiana, u Vas voznikaiut takie voprosy!!!
              > Actually in the respelling of Cyrillic in English the convention is
              that the"palatalized" vowels add I to to the non-palatalized ones and
              not Y. Tho I agree that in English I has sometimes ambiguous
              pronunciation issues.In any case this has been consecrated at the
              Cambridge University since years..
              >
              > Do svidan'ia.
              >
              > Aldo
              >
              >

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • ladyhallaofmugmort
              It s official! Our 12th Night Event is also a Slavic University! It is being held at St. John Chrysostom Byzantine Catholic Church parish hall, in Columbus,
              Message 6 of 23 , Nov 9, 2008
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                It's official! Our 12th Night Event is also a Slavic University! It
                is being held at St. John Chrysostom Byzantine Catholic Church parish
                hall, in Columbus, Ohio, January 10, 2009.

                What kind of class will you teach for us?

                I have teachers lined up for Pysanky, Carpathian Plain Chant and
                Ukrainian Embroidery and "Oh My Goth!". Just email me offlist with
                your class proposals. I'd like classes at all levels of
                interest/skill. I need some intro to Slavic Garb/Slavic History
                classes, as well as intermediate and advanced topics.

                We are working it out for the Ladies Guild at church to do a lunch
                counter featuring pirogies and sauerkraut. We want to do dinner as a
                pot luck.

                Looking forward to seeing as many of you as can attend!

                Halla of Mugmort
              • Amy Tubbs
                My husband Ilia has i versus y pronunciation issues at tourneys. His name is often pronounced as (leah?!?) instead of . -- Vitasha ...
                Message 7 of 23 , Nov 9, 2008
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                  My husband Ilia has i versus y pronunciation issues at tourneys. His name
                  is often pronounced as <ill LEE uh> (leah?!?) instead of <eel YAH>.
                  -- Vitasha

                  On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 1:51 AM, aldo <turanomar@...> wrote:

                  > Dorogaia Tatiana, u Vas voznikaiut takie voprosy!!!
                  > Actually in the respelling of Cyrillic in English the convention is that
                  > the"palatalized" vowels add I to to the non-palatalized ones and not Y. Tho
                  > I agree that in English I has sometimes ambiguous pronunciation issues.In
                  > any case this has been consecrated at the Cambridge University since years..
                  >
                  > Do svidan'ia.
                  >
                  > Aldo
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: gigglesheep
                  > To: sig@yahoogroups.com <sig%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 12:42 AM
                  > Subject: [sig] Another question about names.
                  >
                  > Hello all!
                  > I am trying to register SCA last name "Moskovskaya", Now, my Heralrd
                  > tells me that I can only register it spelled with "aia" and not with
                  > "y". Being that I am actually Russian, it is kind of funny to hear it,
                  > I know that it can be spelled both ways, but I don't actually have any
                  > documentation proving it. Wikipedia mentions it spelled either way,
                  > but I was told that it is not a reliable source.
                  > How can I prove that I am right?
                  >
                  > Thanks in advance,
                  > Tatiana
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • aldo
                  Is there any place for one coming from Italy? Let me know. Aldo ... From: ladyhallaofmugmort To: sig@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 11:39 PM
                  Message 8 of 23 , Nov 10, 2008
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                    Is there any place for one coming from Italy?
                    Let me know.

                    Aldo
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: ladyhallaofmugmort
                    To: sig@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 11:39 PM
                    Subject: [sig] Slavic University, January 10, 2009 Columbus Ohio


                    It's official! Our 12th Night Event is also a Slavic University! It
                    is being held at St. John Chrysostom Byzantine Catholic Church parish
                    hall, in Columbus, Ohio, January 10, 2009.

                    What kind of class will you teach for us?

                    I have teachers lined up for Pysanky, Carpathian Plain Chant and
                    Ukrainian Embroidery and "Oh My Goth!". Just email me offlist with
                    your class proposals. I'd like classes at all levels of
                    interest/skill. I need some intro to Slavic Garb/Slavic History
                    classes, as well as intermediate and advanced topics.

                    We are working it out for the Ladies Guild at church to do a lunch
                    counter featuring pirogies and sauerkraut. We want to do dinner as a
                    pot luck.

                    Looking forward to seeing as many of you as can attend!

                    Halla of Mugmort





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • aldo
                    In Russian is surely ILYAH and not ILEE-A. Aldo ... From: Amy Tubbs To: sig@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 12:08 AM Subject: Re: [sig] Another
                    Message 9 of 23 , Nov 10, 2008
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                      In Russian is surely ILYAH and not ILEE-A.
                      Aldo
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: Amy Tubbs
                      To: sig@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 12:08 AM
                      Subject: Re: [sig] Another question about names.


                      My husband Ilia has i versus y pronunciation issues at tourneys. His name
                      is often pronounced as <ill LEE uh> (leah?!?) instead of <eel YAH>.
                      -- Vitasha

                      On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 1:51 AM, aldo <turanomar@...> wrote:

                      > Dorogaia Tatiana, u Vas voznikaiut takie voprosy!!!
                      > Actually in the respelling of Cyrillic in English the convention is that
                      > the"palatalized" vowels add I to to the non-palatalized ones and not Y. Tho
                      > I agree that in English I has sometimes ambiguous pronunciation issues.In
                      > any case this has been consecrated at the Cambridge University since years..
                      >
                      > Do svidan'ia.
                      >
                      > Aldo
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: gigglesheep
                      > To: sig@yahoogroups.com <sig%40yahoogroups.com>
                      > Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 12:42 AM
                      > Subject: [sig] Another question about names.
                      >
                      > Hello all!
                      > I am trying to register SCA last name "Moskovskaya", Now, my Heralrd
                      > tells me that I can only register it spelled with "aia" and not with
                      > "y". Being that I am actually Russian, it is kind of funny to hear it,
                      > I know that it can be spelled both ways, but I don't actually have any
                      > documentation proving it. Wikipedia mentions it spelled either way,
                      > but I was told that it is not a reliable source.
                      > How can I prove that I am right?
                      >
                      > Thanks in advance,
                      > Tatiana
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Barbara
                      My name is registered with an i but I spell it with a j. I started doing that because people wanted to say rather than . I ve
                      Message 10 of 23 , Nov 10, 2008
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                        My name is registered with an "i" but I spell it with a "j." I started
                        doing that because people wanted to say <tat EE ah na> rather than <tat YA
                        na>. I've had marginal success. ;-) It does manage to differentiate me
                        from other Tatiana's in the area though.

                        The one Ilya I know spells it with a "y." Most people pronounce it <ill
                        YAH> so it's half right. As I think of it, most Russians I know in the SCA
                        have their names mispronounced. Take Mikhail. <Mi KALE> or <mi KILE>. Or
                        Ivan. <EYE van> rather than <ee VAHN>

                        Mir vam,
                        Tatjana
                        (the one with the "j" )

                        "It's never too late to be what you might have been."


                        Wolf and Tiger Woodworking
                        http://www.wolfandtiger.com

                        ----- Original Message ----- >
                        >
                        > My husband Ilia has i versus y pronunciation issues at tourneys. His name
                        > is often pronounced as <ill LEE uh> (leah?!?) instead of <eel YAH>.
                        > -- Vitasha
                        >
                        >
                      • goldschp@tds.net
                        What is the deadline for course proposals?
                        Message 11 of 23 , Nov 10, 2008
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                          What is the deadline for course proposals?


                          ---- ladyhallaofmugmort <pooklaroux@...> wrote:
                          > It's official! Our 12th Night Event is also a Slavic University! It
                          > is being held at St. John Chrysostom Byzantine Catholic Church parish
                          > hall, in Columbus, Ohio, January 10, 2009.
                          >
                          > What kind of class will you teach for us?
                          >
                          > I have teachers lined up for Pysanky, Carpathian Plain Chant and
                          > Ukrainian Embroidery and "Oh My Goth!". Just email me offlist with
                          > your class proposals. I'd like classes at all levels of
                          > interest/skill. I need some intro to Slavic Garb/Slavic History
                          > classes, as well as intermediate and advanced topics.
                          >
                          > We are working it out for the Ladies Guild at church to do a lunch
                          > counter featuring pirogies and sauerkraut. We want to do dinner as a
                          > pot luck.
                          >
                          > Looking forward to seeing as many of you as can attend!
                          >
                          > Halla of Mugmort
                          >
                          >
                          >
                        • gigglesheep
                          ... My opinion is: Would it be useful to do it? If u study languages for other purposes than speaking it, it is worth while... ... Dear Aldo! You are
                          Message 12 of 23 , Nov 10, 2008
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                            --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, "aldo" <turanomar@...> wrote:
                            >
                            My opinion is: Would it be useful to do it? If u study languages for
                            other purposes than speaking it, it is worth while...
                            >
                            > Ciao
                            >
                            > Aldo

                            Dear Aldo!
                            You are absolutely right, when you study your native language in
                            school, you never think (at least I never have) of how and why things
                            are done or said. However, when you look at Language as Science, things
                            are quite different and I have to admit, more interesting. A lot of
                            questions come up. And "anatomy of your own language", like you've
                            said, takes place. (;
                            Thanks again for your input.

                            Tatiana Moskovskaia.
                          • H
                            When is the deadline for proposals for classes at the 12th Night Slavic University? Until I have no more time or space to fill in at the event. But that being
                            Message 13 of 23 , Nov 10, 2008
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                              When is the deadline for proposals for classes at the 12th Night Slavic University?

                              Until I have no more time or space to fill in at the event. But that being said, the sooner you give me an idea that you want to do a class, the sooner I can block out space and time. I promised the autocrat I would post my classes as I get them so that it will create draw for the event. There should be a website up by the end of this week, and you should be able to look at it to see a list of the classes. I already have a request not to double schedule the pysanky and the carpathian plain chant classes, because the teacher of one wants to attend the other. I'll do the best I can with those kinds of requests. I will probably not post the "scehdule" until the last week or so, but a class list will be up as soon as I can get it on there.

                              Oh, I suppose I should also say -- please mention if there is a materials fee, or if you need specific arrangments, like tables, or a space for dancing, or laying out clothing -- just let me know,

                              Halla

                              --- On Mon, 11/10/08, goldschp@... <goldschp@...> wrote:

                              > From: goldschp@... <goldschp@...>
                              > Subject: Re: [sig] Slavic University, January 10, 2009 Columbus Ohio
                              > To: C
                              > Cc: "ladyhallaofmugmort" <pooklaroux@...>
                              > Date: Monday, November 10, 2008, 9:25 AM
                              > What is the deadline for course proposals?
                              >
                              >
                              > ---- ladyhallaofmugmort <pooklaroux@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > > It's official! Our 12th Night Event is also a
                              > Slavic University! It
                              > > is being held at St. John Chrysostom Byzantine
                              > Catholic Church parish
                              > > hall, in Columbus, Ohio, January 10, 2009.
                              > >
                              > > What kind of class will you teach for us?
                              > >
                              > > I have teachers lined up for Pysanky, Carpathian Plain
                              > Chant and
                              > > Ukrainian Embroidery and "Oh My Goth!". Just
                              > email me offlist with
                              > > your class proposals. I'd like classes at all
                              > levels of
                              > > interest/skill. I need some intro to Slavic
                              > Garb/Slavic History
                              > > classes, as well as intermediate and advanced topics.
                              >
                              > >
                              > > We are working it out for the Ladies Guild at church
                              > to do a lunch
                              > > counter featuring pirogies and sauerkraut. We want to
                              > do dinner as a
                              > > pot luck.
                              > >
                              > > Looking forward to seeing as many of you as can
                              > attend!
                              > >
                              > > Halla of Mugmort
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                            • aldo
                              When I started looking at Russian as an object to study and to anatomize (my aunt comes from Odessa) I discovered a lot of curious things especially in the
                              Message 14 of 23 , Nov 10, 2008
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                                When I started looking at Russian as an object to study and to anatomize (my aunt comes from Odessa) I discovered a lot of curious things especially in the resemblance of meny word stems. Of course it did no wonder to me as Rus. is an indogermanic language same as Italian and English and Hindi or Singhalese and even Nepalese! The thing was that many meanings had changed since the expansion of the primitive I.G. in accordance with the location where the new derived language developed and for how long a time kept on transforming before turning into a Culture Language i.e. refering to a certain people and region.
                                U would never think of the many features that make the IG languages a grand community. Think for instance of the numbers. Think of the basic body nomenclature etc.
                                Would ever put on the same line REKA with REAL or READ? Perhaps more with RIVER or RIPUARIAN or RIVAL.
                                Try and reconstruct the string urself.

                                Ciao

                                Aldo


                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: gigglesheep
                                To: sig@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 4:04 PM
                                Subject: [sig] Re: Another question about names.


                                --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, "aldo" <turanomar@...> wrote:
                                >
                                My opinion is: Would it be useful to do it? If u study languages for
                                other purposes than speaking it, it is worth while...
                                >
                                > Ciao
                                >
                                > Aldo

                                Dear Aldo!
                                You are absolutely right, when you study your native language in
                                school, you never think (at least I never have) of how and why things
                                are done or said. However, when you look at Language as Science, things
                                are quite different and I have to admit, more interesting. A lot of
                                questions come up. And "anatomy of your own language", like you've
                                said, takes place. (;
                                Thanks again for your input.

                                Tatiana Moskovskaia.





                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • ladyhallaofmugmort
                                Aldo, I am sure we can find you local crash space if you need it, and a pick up from the local airport (Port Columbus). Halla
                                Message 15 of 23 , Nov 10, 2008
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                                  Aldo, I am sure we can find you local crash space if you need it, and
                                  a pick up from the local airport (Port Columbus).

                                  Halla




                                  --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, "aldo" <turanomar@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Is there any place for one coming from Italy?
                                  > Let me know.
                                  >
                                  > Aldo
                                  > ----- Original Message -----
                                  > From: ladyhallaofmugmort
                                  > To: sig@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 11:39 PM
                                  > Subject: [sig] Slavic University, January 10, 2009 Columbus Ohio
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > It's official! Our 12th Night Event is also a Slavic University! It
                                  > is being held at St. John Chrysostom Byzantine Catholic Church parish
                                  > hall, in Columbus, Ohio, January 10, 2009.

                                  >
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