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Period Hungarian Food (and other Eastern European)

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  • jenne@fiedlerfamily.net
    In the category of I agreed to do WHAT?! , now that I know I got all the classes I asked to teach at Pennsic, I realize that I need to update my Eastern
    Message 1 of 5 , Jul 2, 2008
      In the category of "I agreed to do WHAT?!", now that I know I got all the
      classes I asked to teach at Pennsic, I realize that I need to update my
      Eastern European food class, especially with things Hungarian.
      Unfortunately, I lost most of my saved SCA-cooks and SIG folders last year
      in a disk crash. So, I'm hoping to re-pick the brains of the cooks here
      about Hungarian period food.

      I know *about* the banquets for kings in Rumpolt, and I plan to re-read
      _Tender Meat Under the Saddle_ but I'm worried that I'm missing something
      big. I've been asked to especially try to incorporate some Hungarian foods
      into the sample tasting that I want to do for the class

      Here's my handout-- I'd love commentary and corrections from anyone who's
      willing to read it:
      http://www.gallowglass.org/jadwiga/SCA/slavic/slavicfood.html

      Grateful in advance,
      -- Jadwiga
      --
      -- Jenne Heise / Jadwiga Zajaczkowa
      jenne@...
    • aldo
      I would add following note: Today we are used to cook looking at the cooking stuff while boiling etc. In the past as the only source of heat for cooking was
      Message 2 of 5 , Jul 2, 2008
        I would add following note:
        Today we are used to cook looking at the cooking stuff while boiling etc. In the past as the only source of heat for cooking was either the naked fire of a small bonfire or (an mainly) the Petchka while roasted meat could be inspected at while roasting, whatver you put in the petchka would remian there not looked upon for a certain time. And could be taken out after so long a time as according to the cook's experience the food was ready.In other words while in the todays' cookers the usual dishes are mostly prepared by supplying heat from the bottom of the the container, in the traditional Russina Kitchen the heat enveloped the whole container which gave a special taste to te food.
        Ciao

        Aldo
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: jenne@...
        To: SCA Cooks Guild ; Slavic Interest Group
        Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 7:39 PM
        Subject: [sig] Period Hungarian Food (and other Eastern European)


        In the category of "I agreed to do WHAT?!", now that I know I got all the
        classes I asked to teach at Pennsic, I realize that I need to update my
        Eastern European food class, especially with things Hungarian.
        Unfortunately, I lost most of my saved SCA-cooks and SIG folders last year
        in a disk crash. So, I'm hoping to re-pick the brains of the cooks here
        about Hungarian period food.

        I know *about* the banquets for kings in Rumpolt, and I plan to re-read
        _Tender Meat Under the Saddle_ but I'm worried that I'm missing something
        big. I've been asked to especially try to incorporate some Hungarian foods
        into the sample tasting that I want to do for the class

        Here's my handout-- I'd love commentary and corrections from anyone who's
        willing to read it:
        http://www.gallowglass.org/jadwiga/SCA/slavic/slavicfood.html

        Grateful in advance,
        -- Jadwiga
        --
        -- Jenne Heise / Jadwiga Zajaczkowa
        jenne@...





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • jenne@fiedlerfamily.net
        Interesting. The tile stove type of Petchka?-- when did it come into use? The sources I looked at suggested that rectangular tile stoves were fairly late
        Message 3 of 5 , Jul 2, 2008
          Interesting. The tile stove type of Petchka?-- when did it come into use?
          The sources I looked at suggested that rectangular tile stoves were fairly
          late developments.

          Did the dome-type stoves have internal ovens?

          I know that in Western Europe and Germany, most cooking was done in vats
          of boiling water over a fire or on ranks of spits, often let into the side
          of the fireplace and arranged with turning equipment. From what I've read,
          the Western Slavs appear to have adopted those cooking equipages to some
          extent in period.

          How would kettles and spits have been rigged? with free-standing racks and
          tripods, or set into a wall of some kind?
          -- Jadwiga

          > I would add following note:
          > Today we are used to cook looking at the cooking stuff while boiling etc.
          > In the past as the only source of heat for cooking was either the naked
          > fire of a small bonfire or (an mainly) the Petchka while roasted meat
          > could be inspected at while roasting, whatver you put in the petchka would
          > remian there not looked upon for a certain time. And could be taken out
          > after so long a time as according to the cook's experience the food was
          > ready.In other words while in the todays' cookers the usual dishes are
          > mostly prepared by supplying heat from the bottom of the the container, in
          > the traditional Russina Kitchen the heat enveloped the whole container
          > which gave a special taste to te food.


          --
          -- Jenne Heise / Jadwiga Zajaczkowa
          jenne@...
        • aldo
          The tile stove came in use as to the records around the XIV cent. in the North of Rus and a little earlier in the South and the reason is simple. Why use so
          Message 4 of 5 , Jul 2, 2008
            The tile stove came in use as to the records around the XIV cent. in the North of Rus' and a little earlier in the South and the reason is simple. Why use so much wood to cook clay and make tiles when the petchkca could cook itself to the correct hardness if clay was modeled on a wooden frame and then wood let burn inside it? The petchka I am hinting at is the dome type, the most traditional one that my mother-in-law still uses in Belarus today.One oven mouth and a small and narrow hole on the top so that solely smoke and soot come out. Yes! The rigging... Terracotta pots of a few sizes, a frying pan (skorovoda) usually made of copper, a tripod (taganka) as the cooking pot had no feet (or sometimes just three for the big ones) and a round bottom and a kind of spade to hitch the taganka and drag it out. I remember that at the end of the year when gretchka was introduced from Greece (the name !!) this crop was used to cook New Year's kasha.Now gretchka is excellent with a taste of its own if you cook it but not let it open such as pop corn flakes. So it must be boiled with not too much water and stop the boiling before it starts to burst out. The old aunts said: If gretchka is red it is good to eat and the year will be favorable to everybody, but if gretchka is white and reeks a little roasty then the coming year will be bad.It means that if the grains are still entire and the reddish scale has not torn open gretchka is tasty but if the inner flesh is coming out then gretchka is not to be eaten and given to the dogs.
            Ciao

            Aldo
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: jenne@...
            To: sig@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 8:06 PM
            Subject: Re: [sig] Period Hungarian Food (and other Eastern European)


            Interesting. The tile stove type of Petchka?-- when did it come into use?
            The sources I looked at suggested that rectangular tile stoves were fairly
            late developments.

            Did the dome-type stoves have internal ovens?

            I know that in Western Europe and Germany, most cooking was done in vats
            of boiling water over a fire or on ranks of spits, often let into the side
            of the fireplace and arranged with turning equipment. From what I've read,
            the Western Slavs appear to have adopted those cooking equipages to some
            extent in period.

            How would kettles and spits have been rigged? with free-standing racks and
            tripods, or set into a wall of some kind?
            -- Jadwiga

            > I would add following note:
            > Today we are used to cook looking at the cooking stuff while boiling etc.
            > In the past as the only source of heat for cooking was either the naked
            > fire of a small bonfire or (an mainly) the Petchka while roasted meat
            > could be inspected at while roasting, whatver you put in the petchka would
            > remian there not looked upon for a certain time. And could be taken out
            > after so long a time as according to the cook's experience the food was
            > ready.In other words while in the todays' cookers the usual dishes are
            > mostly prepared by supplying heat from the bottom of the the container, in
            > the traditional Russina Kitchen the heat enveloped the whole container
            > which gave a special taste to te food.

            --
            -- Jenne Heise / Jadwiga Zajaczkowa
            jenne@...





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • L.M. Kies
            Greetings from Sofya. ... I agree. I have only seen evidence for dome-type stoves in period. ... Indeed. That seems to have been a big part of traditional
            Message 5 of 5 , Jul 2, 2008
              Greetings from Sofya.

              >The sources I looked at suggested that rectangular tile stoves were fairly
              >late developments.

              I agree. I have only seen evidence for dome-type stoves in period.

              >Did the dome-type stoves have internal ovens?

              Indeed. That seems to have been a big part of traditional Russian cooking. There is a special baked/boiled milk dish, varenets, that seems to require such an oven.

              I started some research into the Russian oven but didn't get very far. Everything I know is here:
              http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser/Russia/Architecture/stove.html

              From what I can tell, it was a bee-hive-type oven but with an opening in the top as well as the side. I've played around with trying it out - it seems like it would work like a cross between a "rocket stove" (Google them for more info) and a traditional bread oven - but it's a bit of a construction project and I haven't gotten around to it yet.

              Sofya




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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