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Re: Hello Nice Herald People

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  • Pan Zygmunt Nadratowski
    Message 1 of 20 , Jun 21, 2008
      <<Re: Hello Nice Herald People
      <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sig/message/13466;_ylc=X3oDMTJxYWtybG81BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzIyNjgwNARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUxMjYyODMEbXNnSWQDMTM0NjYEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTIxNDAzNjYzMA-->
      Posted
      by: "quokkaqueen" quokkaqueen@...
      <quokkaqueen@...?Subject=+Re%3A%20Hello%20Nice%20Herald%20People>
      quokkaqueen
      <http://profiles.yahoo.com/quokkaqueen> Fri Jun 20, 2008 1:57 am (PDT) For
      the Abdank/Lekawica/W-thing, there is:
      Jan Długosz: Catalogus archiepiscoporum Gnesnensium ; Vitae
      episcoporum Cracoviensium. Latin. 1531-1535.

      There's a short English description here:
      http://www.polona.pl/dlibra/collectiondescription2?dirids=16
      And the manuscript is here:
      http://www.polona.pl/dlibra/doccontent2?id=63&from=editionindex&from=-3search&dirids=16

      On pages 44 and 93, you can see a W on a shield. It isn't a heraldic
      text, so it wouldn't discuss in detail the charge, but it does show it
      in use before 1600.

      My question is, could this manuscript be used as a source, to show the
      charges existence before 1600? If not, why not? (Assuming that there
      was other documentation like an English reprint of a book,* from a
      different manuscript that also describes the charge. Instead of just a
      pretty picture.)

      I'm curious about the amount of documentation that would be needed,
      especially since Rosie has been working on this for a very long time.
      ~Asfridhr

      *Rosemary Pinches and Anthony Wood (editors), A European Armorial— An
      Armorial of the Knights of the Golden Fleece and 15th Century Europe
      from a Contemporary Manuscript — With an Introduction to Polish
      Heraldry by Bernard J. Klec-Pilewski, London, 1991>>

      Yep, all those are great. I was going to suggest them, but this posted to
      SIG before I could answer. For others interested in Polish Heraldry, I also
      suggest "Banderia Apud Grunwald" (Polish Banners at Grunwald). This uses Jan
      Dlugosz's account of the battle (1410 AD), as well as other primary sources,
      to document and explain what clans (and thus their devices) were at the
      battle.

      Another good source (I believe it's also a primary source document) is
      Paprocki, Bartosz
      *Herby Rycerstwa Polskiego, *Biblioteka Kórnicka, Polskiej
      Akademii Nauk, 1988.

      Also see:

      Górski, Carolus, ed.

      *Jana Długosza, Banderia Prutenorum,* Państowe Wydawnictwo Naukowe, Warsaw,
      1958.



      Grabowska, Irena
      *Gallery of Arms and Colours in Poland*, The National Museum in Krakow.
      Exhibition guide, Krakow, 2005.

      --
      Pan Zygmunt Nadratowski
      "To rip the ugly, false, and weak from my soul and hurl it into hell. To
      pull the powerful, intrepid, and unstoppable from within and wear it like a
      tabard." - D. Sebastian
      "Some day I hope to be the man my kids believe me to be and the man my Wife
      deserves."
      Servant of His Grace Sir Dag Thorgrimsson and Master Mordok Rostovskogo
      SCA Polish Culture Resource: http://www.plcommonwealth.org


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