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RE: Re: [sig] Music - garb

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  • Sfandra
    Possible. Is there a connection between King David and playing music while someone is prepared for burial? Because that s what I m seeing here: it s the same
    Message 1 of 8 , Apr 7, 2008
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      Possible. Is there a connection between King David
      and playing music while someone is prepared for
      burial? Because that's what I'm seeing here: it's the
      same guy, over and over, playing the lute while an
      angel prepares someone's body....
      --Sfandra

      --- "L.M. Kies" <lkies@...> wrote:

      > I was pondering that very question, myself. I
      > suspect that it's King David who was famous for his
      > musical talents.
      >
      > Sofya
      >
      > >------- Original Message -------
      > >
      > >Have you been able to identify the saint that seems
      > to
      > be consistantly depicted as a lute-player?
      > --Sfandra
      >
      > --- Kataryna Dragonweaver
      > <kataryna_dragonweaver@...> wrote:
      >
      > > In my ever expanding quest to find things related
      > to
      > > the
      > > Medieval/Renaissance in the lands of the current
      > > Ukrainian area...
      > > I've stumbled across some interesting pictures of
      > > early pictures of lutes:
      > > http://torban.org/mamai/index.html
      > >
      > > One of the pictures on here is from the Saint
      > Sophia
      > > Cathedral in Kiev.
      > > It's the picture of musicians I musing about a few
      > > months ago in the
      > > clothing post.
      > >


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    • Kataryna Dragonweaver
      Do I know when and where... well I m not 100% since the picture seems to have no attribution other then it s file name that states Saint Sofia... I assume the
      Message 2 of 8 , Apr 8, 2008
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        Do I know when and where... well I'm not 100% since the picture
        seems to have no attribution other then it's file name that states
        Saint Sofia... I assume the cathedral in Kyiv. The pictures look a
        lot like they are part of the same group as the 11th century
        Yaroslav's daughter's ones from the same cathedral shown in many
        costume books on the time/place:
        http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hills333/_2356.htm

        In the various costuming books they also mention a picture of a
        number of musicans which is from the same time; but until now I've
        never been able to track down a picture of them. I think the picture
        from the previous post might be the one mentioned (ergo I decided to
        post). If you think that based on the style of lute holes it's more
        likely from a later date you could be correct... It's hard to say
        since I haven't found a lot of information on that picture aside
        that it existed.

        For a number of frescos/mosaics/paintings in the cathedral go here:
        http://www.galenfrysinger.com/st_sophia_cathedral_kyiv.htm
        or
        http://www.icon-art.info/location.php?
        lng=en&loc_id=148&mode=mos&sort=time&page=1

        -Kataryna
      • Kataryna Dragonweaver
        PS: I m looking at the picture at the bottom of the page... not the ones above... tho the first picture is called KamiankaStrumylova- 01b (the one I suspect
        Message 3 of 8 , Apr 8, 2008
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          PS: I'm looking at the picture at the bottom of the page... not the
          ones above... tho the first picture is called "KamiankaStrumylova-
          01b" (the one I suspect you are looking at)... which might indicate
          they are from that location (a village in L'viv).

          From a this week in history site archive:
          "Sept. 8 1619: The first known premiere of Yakub Havatovych's two
          Ukrainian intermedes (short comic or satiric sketches performed
          between acts of serious plays) is held in Kamianka Strumylova."

          The place name maybe also written in English (depending which
          language you are starting from... polish, russian, ukrainian, etc.)
          as Kamyanka-Strumylova or kamionecki Kamionka Strumi³owa, Kaminka
          Strumylova, Kamyanka Strumylova.
          -Kataryna

          --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, "Kataryna Dragonweaver"
          <kataryna_dragonweaver@...> wrote:
          >
          > Do I know when and where... well I'm not 100% since the picture
          > seems to have no attribution other then it's file name that states
          > Saint Sofia... I assume the cathedral in Kyiv. The pictures look a
          > lot like they are part of the same group as the 11th century
          > Yaroslav's daughter's ones from the same cathedral shown in many
          > costume books on the time/place:
          >
          http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hills333/_2356.htm
          >
          > In the various costuming books they also mention a picture of a
          > number of musicans which is from the same time; but until now I've
          > never been able to track down a picture of them. I think the
          picture
          > from the previous post might be the one mentioned (ergo I decided
          to
          > post). If you think that based on the style of lute holes it's
          more
          > likely from a later date you could be correct... It's hard to say
          > since I haven't found a lot of information on that picture aside
          > that it existed.
          >
          > For a number of frescos/mosaics/paintings in the cathedral go here:
          > http://www.galenfrysinger.com/st_sophia_cathedral_kyiv.htm
          > or
          > http://www.icon-art.info/location.php?
          > lng=en&loc_id=148&mode=mos&sort=time&page=1
          >
          > -Kataryna
          >
        • Iustin Branov
          Yes! Typically, in Russian Orthodox practice, the Psalter is read over a dead body as it lay in the temple between bringing it in and the funeral. If a priest
          Message 4 of 8 , Apr 21, 2008
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            Yes!

            Typically, in Russian Orthodox practice, the Psalter
            is read over a dead body as it lay in the temple
            between bringing it in and the funeral. If a priest
            or bishop, the Gospel is read. This practice carries
            over to the Holy Week services, in which the psalter
            is read in front of Christ's "tomb" from the end of
            Holy Saturday Matins (sung on Holy Friday evening)
            until the vesperal Liturgy on Holy Saturday morning.
            And looking at the lutist, that is certainly in
            keeping with typical iconographic depiction of King
            David.



            K Tvoim Uslugam,
            Iustin

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