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RE: Re: [sig] Music - garb

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  • L.M. Kies
    I was pondering that very question, myself. I suspect that it s King David who was famous for his musical talents. Sofya ... be consistantly depicted as a
    Message 1 of 8 , Apr 7, 2008
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      I was pondering that very question, myself. I suspect that it's King David who was famous for his musical talents.

      Sofya

      >------- Original Message -------
      >
      >Have you been able to identify the saint that seems to
      be consistantly depicted as a lute-player?
      --Sfandra

      --- Kataryna Dragonweaver
      <kataryna_dragonweaver@...> wrote:

      > In my ever expanding quest to find things related to
      > the
      > Medieval/Renaissance in the lands of the current
      > Ukrainian area...
      > I've stumbled across some interesting pictures of
      > early pictures of lutes:
      > http://torban.org/mamai/index.html
      >
      > One of the pictures on here is from the Saint Sophia
      > Cathedral in Kiev.
      > It's the picture of musicians I musing about a few
      > months ago in the
      > clothing post.
      >
      > -Kataryna
      > (Very happy to know the flute is definitely in use
      > by the culture at
      > the time.... now to see if I can pull some possible
      > SCA acceptable
      > music from the Ukrainian language side of the
      > equation...)
      >

      ******************
      Posadnitsa Sfandra Dmitrieva Chernigova
      KOE, Maunche, Apprentice to Maitresse Irene LeNoir
      Haus Von Drakenklaue
      Kingdom of the East
      ******************
      Never 'pearl' your butt.


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    • Sfandra
      Possible. Is there a connection between King David and playing music while someone is prepared for burial? Because that s what I m seeing here: it s the same
      Message 2 of 8 , Apr 7, 2008
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        Possible. Is there a connection between King David
        and playing music while someone is prepared for
        burial? Because that's what I'm seeing here: it's the
        same guy, over and over, playing the lute while an
        angel prepares someone's body....
        --Sfandra

        --- "L.M. Kies" <lkies@...> wrote:

        > I was pondering that very question, myself. I
        > suspect that it's King David who was famous for his
        > musical talents.
        >
        > Sofya
        >
        > >------- Original Message -------
        > >
        > >Have you been able to identify the saint that seems
        > to
        > be consistantly depicted as a lute-player?
        > --Sfandra
        >
        > --- Kataryna Dragonweaver
        > <kataryna_dragonweaver@...> wrote:
        >
        > > In my ever expanding quest to find things related
        > to
        > > the
        > > Medieval/Renaissance in the lands of the current
        > > Ukrainian area...
        > > I've stumbled across some interesting pictures of
        > > early pictures of lutes:
        > > http://torban.org/mamai/index.html
        > >
        > > One of the pictures on here is from the Saint
        > Sophia
        > > Cathedral in Kiev.
        > > It's the picture of musicians I musing about a few
        > > months ago in the
        > > clothing post.
        > >


        ******************
        Posadnitsa Sfandra Dmitrieva Chernigova
        KOE, Maunche, Apprentice to Maitresse Irene LeNoir
        Haus Von Drakenklaue
        Kingdom of the East
        ******************
        Never 'pearl' your butt.


        ____________________________________________________________________________________
        You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.
        http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com
      • Kataryna Dragonweaver
        Do I know when and where... well I m not 100% since the picture seems to have no attribution other then it s file name that states Saint Sofia... I assume the
        Message 3 of 8 , Apr 8, 2008
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          Do I know when and where... well I'm not 100% since the picture
          seems to have no attribution other then it's file name that states
          Saint Sofia... I assume the cathedral in Kyiv. The pictures look a
          lot like they are part of the same group as the 11th century
          Yaroslav's daughter's ones from the same cathedral shown in many
          costume books on the time/place:
          http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hills333/_2356.htm

          In the various costuming books they also mention a picture of a
          number of musicans which is from the same time; but until now I've
          never been able to track down a picture of them. I think the picture
          from the previous post might be the one mentioned (ergo I decided to
          post). If you think that based on the style of lute holes it's more
          likely from a later date you could be correct... It's hard to say
          since I haven't found a lot of information on that picture aside
          that it existed.

          For a number of frescos/mosaics/paintings in the cathedral go here:
          http://www.galenfrysinger.com/st_sophia_cathedral_kyiv.htm
          or
          http://www.icon-art.info/location.php?
          lng=en&loc_id=148&mode=mos&sort=time&page=1

          -Kataryna
        • Kataryna Dragonweaver
          PS: I m looking at the picture at the bottom of the page... not the ones above... tho the first picture is called KamiankaStrumylova- 01b (the one I suspect
          Message 4 of 8 , Apr 8, 2008
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            PS: I'm looking at the picture at the bottom of the page... not the
            ones above... tho the first picture is called "KamiankaStrumylova-
            01b" (the one I suspect you are looking at)... which might indicate
            they are from that location (a village in L'viv).

            From a this week in history site archive:
            "Sept. 8 1619: The first known premiere of Yakub Havatovych's two
            Ukrainian intermedes (short comic or satiric sketches performed
            between acts of serious plays) is held in Kamianka Strumylova."

            The place name maybe also written in English (depending which
            language you are starting from... polish, russian, ukrainian, etc.)
            as Kamyanka-Strumylova or kamionecki Kamionka Strumi³owa, Kaminka
            Strumylova, Kamyanka Strumylova.
            -Kataryna

            --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, "Kataryna Dragonweaver"
            <kataryna_dragonweaver@...> wrote:
            >
            > Do I know when and where... well I'm not 100% since the picture
            > seems to have no attribution other then it's file name that states
            > Saint Sofia... I assume the cathedral in Kyiv. The pictures look a
            > lot like they are part of the same group as the 11th century
            > Yaroslav's daughter's ones from the same cathedral shown in many
            > costume books on the time/place:
            >
            http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hills333/_2356.htm
            >
            > In the various costuming books they also mention a picture of a
            > number of musicans which is from the same time; but until now I've
            > never been able to track down a picture of them. I think the
            picture
            > from the previous post might be the one mentioned (ergo I decided
            to
            > post). If you think that based on the style of lute holes it's
            more
            > likely from a later date you could be correct... It's hard to say
            > since I haven't found a lot of information on that picture aside
            > that it existed.
            >
            > For a number of frescos/mosaics/paintings in the cathedral go here:
            > http://www.galenfrysinger.com/st_sophia_cathedral_kyiv.htm
            > or
            > http://www.icon-art.info/location.php?
            > lng=en&loc_id=148&mode=mos&sort=time&page=1
            >
            > -Kataryna
            >
          • Iustin Branov
            Yes! Typically, in Russian Orthodox practice, the Psalter is read over a dead body as it lay in the temple between bringing it in and the funeral. If a priest
            Message 5 of 8 , Apr 21, 2008
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              Yes!

              Typically, in Russian Orthodox practice, the Psalter
              is read over a dead body as it lay in the temple
              between bringing it in and the funeral. If a priest
              or bishop, the Gospel is read. This practice carries
              over to the Holy Week services, in which the psalter
              is read in front of Christ's "tomb" from the end of
              Holy Saturday Matins (sung on Holy Friday evening)
              until the vesperal Liturgy on Holy Saturday morning.
              And looking at the lutist, that is certainly in
              keeping with typical iconographic depiction of King
              David.



              K Tvoim Uslugam,
              Iustin

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              Pomestnik Iustin Branov, among the Greeks Kyrios Iustinos o Roussos
              mka Justin Griffing
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              Shire of Mt. Freehold, East Kingdom
              AIM: JMGriffingIM
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