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Re: [sig] Music - garb

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  • Dee Thompson
    ... De-lurking for a moment... Do you happen to know off-hand when those pictures were painted? Because the lutes seem to have carved and inset roses in the
    Message 1 of 8 , Apr 7, 2008
      > I've stumbled across some interesting pictures of
      > early pictures of lutes:
      > http://torban.org/mamai/index.html
      >
      > One of the pictures on here is from the Saint Sophia
      > Cathedral in Kiev.
      > It's the picture of musicians I musing about a few
      > months ago in the
      > clothing post.
      >
      > -Kataryna


      De-lurking for a moment...
      Do you happen to know off-hand when those pictures
      were painted?
      Because the lutes seem to have carved and inset roses
      in the sound holes. They sort of bear a resemblance
      to "parchment roses", and I've only seen those in
      later period Spanish and Italian lutes.
      (Just thought it was interesting...)
      Fionnuala

      the problem
      with comforting illusions
      is that someone else
      ends up footing the bill
      for your comfort.


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
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    • Sfandra
      Have you been able to identify the saint that seems to be consistantly depicted as a lute-player? --Sfandra ... ****************** Posadnitsa Sfandra Dmitrieva
      Message 2 of 8 , Apr 7, 2008
        Have you been able to identify the saint that seems to
        be consistantly depicted as a lute-player?
        --Sfandra

        --- Kataryna Dragonweaver
        <kataryna_dragonweaver@...> wrote:

        > In my ever expanding quest to find things related to
        > the
        > Medieval/Renaissance in the lands of the current
        > Ukrainian area...
        > I've stumbled across some interesting pictures of
        > early pictures of lutes:
        > http://torban.org/mamai/index.html
        >
        > One of the pictures on here is from the Saint Sophia
        > Cathedral in Kiev.
        > It's the picture of musicians I musing about a few
        > months ago in the
        > clothing post.
        >
        > -Kataryna
        > (Very happy to know the flute is definitely in use
        > by the culture at
        > the time.... now to see if I can pull some possible
        > SCA acceptable
        > music from the Ukrainian language side of the
        > equation...)
        >

        ******************
        Posadnitsa Sfandra Dmitrieva Chernigova
        KOE, Maunche, Apprentice to Maitresse Irene LeNoir
        Haus Von Drakenklaue
        Kingdom of the East
        ******************
        Never 'pearl' your butt.


        ____________________________________________________________________________________
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      • L.M. Kies
        I was pondering that very question, myself. I suspect that it s King David who was famous for his musical talents. Sofya ... be consistantly depicted as a
        Message 3 of 8 , Apr 7, 2008
          I was pondering that very question, myself. I suspect that it's King David who was famous for his musical talents.

          Sofya

          >------- Original Message -------
          >
          >Have you been able to identify the saint that seems to
          be consistantly depicted as a lute-player?
          --Sfandra

          --- Kataryna Dragonweaver
          <kataryna_dragonweaver@...> wrote:

          > In my ever expanding quest to find things related to
          > the
          > Medieval/Renaissance in the lands of the current
          > Ukrainian area...
          > I've stumbled across some interesting pictures of
          > early pictures of lutes:
          > http://torban.org/mamai/index.html
          >
          > One of the pictures on here is from the Saint Sophia
          > Cathedral in Kiev.
          > It's the picture of musicians I musing about a few
          > months ago in the
          > clothing post.
          >
          > -Kataryna
          > (Very happy to know the flute is definitely in use
          > by the culture at
          > the time.... now to see if I can pull some possible
          > SCA acceptable
          > music from the Ukrainian language side of the
          > equation...)
          >

          ******************
          Posadnitsa Sfandra Dmitrieva Chernigova
          KOE, Maunche, Apprentice to Maitresse Irene LeNoir
          Haus Von Drakenklaue
          Kingdom of the East
          ******************
          Never 'pearl' your butt.


          ____________________________________________________________________________________
          You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.
          http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com

          ------------------------------------

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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Sfandra
          Possible. Is there a connection between King David and playing music while someone is prepared for burial? Because that s what I m seeing here: it s the same
          Message 4 of 8 , Apr 7, 2008
            Possible. Is there a connection between King David
            and playing music while someone is prepared for
            burial? Because that's what I'm seeing here: it's the
            same guy, over and over, playing the lute while an
            angel prepares someone's body....
            --Sfandra

            --- "L.M. Kies" <lkies@...> wrote:

            > I was pondering that very question, myself. I
            > suspect that it's King David who was famous for his
            > musical talents.
            >
            > Sofya
            >
            > >------- Original Message -------
            > >
            > >Have you been able to identify the saint that seems
            > to
            > be consistantly depicted as a lute-player?
            > --Sfandra
            >
            > --- Kataryna Dragonweaver
            > <kataryna_dragonweaver@...> wrote:
            >
            > > In my ever expanding quest to find things related
            > to
            > > the
            > > Medieval/Renaissance in the lands of the current
            > > Ukrainian area...
            > > I've stumbled across some interesting pictures of
            > > early pictures of lutes:
            > > http://torban.org/mamai/index.html
            > >
            > > One of the pictures on here is from the Saint
            > Sophia
            > > Cathedral in Kiev.
            > > It's the picture of musicians I musing about a few
            > > months ago in the
            > > clothing post.
            > >


            ******************
            Posadnitsa Sfandra Dmitrieva Chernigova
            KOE, Maunche, Apprentice to Maitresse Irene LeNoir
            Haus Von Drakenklaue
            Kingdom of the East
            ******************
            Never 'pearl' your butt.


            ____________________________________________________________________________________
            You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.
            http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com
          • Kataryna Dragonweaver
            Do I know when and where... well I m not 100% since the picture seems to have no attribution other then it s file name that states Saint Sofia... I assume the
            Message 5 of 8 , Apr 8, 2008
              Do I know when and where... well I'm not 100% since the picture
              seems to have no attribution other then it's file name that states
              Saint Sofia... I assume the cathedral in Kyiv. The pictures look a
              lot like they are part of the same group as the 11th century
              Yaroslav's daughter's ones from the same cathedral shown in many
              costume books on the time/place:
              http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hills333/_2356.htm

              In the various costuming books they also mention a picture of a
              number of musicans which is from the same time; but until now I've
              never been able to track down a picture of them. I think the picture
              from the previous post might be the one mentioned (ergo I decided to
              post). If you think that based on the style of lute holes it's more
              likely from a later date you could be correct... It's hard to say
              since I haven't found a lot of information on that picture aside
              that it existed.

              For a number of frescos/mosaics/paintings in the cathedral go here:
              http://www.galenfrysinger.com/st_sophia_cathedral_kyiv.htm
              or
              http://www.icon-art.info/location.php?
              lng=en&loc_id=148&mode=mos&sort=time&page=1

              -Kataryna
            • Kataryna Dragonweaver
              PS: I m looking at the picture at the bottom of the page... not the ones above... tho the first picture is called KamiankaStrumylova- 01b (the one I suspect
              Message 6 of 8 , Apr 8, 2008
                PS: I'm looking at the picture at the bottom of the page... not the
                ones above... tho the first picture is called "KamiankaStrumylova-
                01b" (the one I suspect you are looking at)... which might indicate
                they are from that location (a village in L'viv).

                From a this week in history site archive:
                "Sept. 8 1619: The first known premiere of Yakub Havatovych's two
                Ukrainian intermedes (short comic or satiric sketches performed
                between acts of serious plays) is held in Kamianka Strumylova."

                The place name maybe also written in English (depending which
                language you are starting from... polish, russian, ukrainian, etc.)
                as Kamyanka-Strumylova or kamionecki Kamionka Strumi³owa, Kaminka
                Strumylova, Kamyanka Strumylova.
                -Kataryna

                --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, "Kataryna Dragonweaver"
                <kataryna_dragonweaver@...> wrote:
                >
                > Do I know when and where... well I'm not 100% since the picture
                > seems to have no attribution other then it's file name that states
                > Saint Sofia... I assume the cathedral in Kyiv. The pictures look a
                > lot like they are part of the same group as the 11th century
                > Yaroslav's daughter's ones from the same cathedral shown in many
                > costume books on the time/place:
                >
                http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hills333/_2356.htm
                >
                > In the various costuming books they also mention a picture of a
                > number of musicans which is from the same time; but until now I've
                > never been able to track down a picture of them. I think the
                picture
                > from the previous post might be the one mentioned (ergo I decided
                to
                > post). If you think that based on the style of lute holes it's
                more
                > likely from a later date you could be correct... It's hard to say
                > since I haven't found a lot of information on that picture aside
                > that it existed.
                >
                > For a number of frescos/mosaics/paintings in the cathedral go here:
                > http://www.galenfrysinger.com/st_sophia_cathedral_kyiv.htm
                > or
                > http://www.icon-art.info/location.php?
                > lng=en&loc_id=148&mode=mos&sort=time&page=1
                >
                > -Kataryna
                >
              • Iustin Branov
                Yes! Typically, in Russian Orthodox practice, the Psalter is read over a dead body as it lay in the temple between bringing it in and the funeral. If a priest
                Message 7 of 8 , Apr 21, 2008
                  Yes!

                  Typically, in Russian Orthodox practice, the Psalter
                  is read over a dead body as it lay in the temple
                  between bringing it in and the funeral. If a priest
                  or bishop, the Gospel is read. This practice carries
                  over to the Holy Week services, in which the psalter
                  is read in front of Christ's "tomb" from the end of
                  Holy Saturday Matins (sung on Holy Friday evening)
                  until the vesperal Liturgy on Holy Saturday morning.
                  And looking at the lutist, that is certainly in
                  keeping with typical iconographic depiction of King
                  David.



                  K Tvoim Uslugam,
                  Iustin

                  ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  Pomestnik Iustin Branov, among the Greeks Kyrios Iustinos o Roussos
                  mka Justin Griffing
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                  Pursuivant, Shire of Mt. Freehold
                  Shire of Mt. Freehold, East Kingdom
                  AIM: JMGriffingIM
                  Yahoo!: JMGriffingIM


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