Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Help with a Name

Expand Messages
  • Andreas Van Hassen
    I need some help on finding documentations for a Bohemian by-name and I was hoping someone would be able to point me in to the right direction. The by-name is
    Message 1 of 8 , Apr 6, 2008
    • 0 Attachment
      I need some help on finding documentations for a Bohemian by-name and I
      was hoping someone would be able to point me in to the right direction.

      The by-name is Èermák. (Cermak)

      Thank you

      Andrew
    • quokkaqueen
      Are you interested in the meaning of the byname, or in the sound? (Websters online says it means Robin, as in the little bird.) When I go into uni tomorrow
      Message 2 of 8 , Apr 7, 2008
      • 0 Attachment
        Are you interested in the meaning of the byname, or in the sound?
        (Websters online says it means Robin, as in the little bird.)

        When I go into uni tomorrow I'll look at some books in the library for
        you. :)

        ~Asfridhr

        --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, "Andreas Van Hassen" <adhazen1974@...> wrote:
        >
        > I need some help on finding documentations for a Bohemian by-name and I
        > was hoping someone would be able to point me in to the right direction.
        >
        > The by-name is Èermák. (Cermak)
        >
        > Thank you
        >
        > Andrew
        >
      • Andreas Van Hassen
        I am interested in its meaning and sound as well as history of its origins. I would like to it as my by-name in the SCA, so I am looking for documentation of
        Message 3 of 8 , Apr 7, 2008
        • 0 Attachment
          I am interested in its meaning and sound as well as history of its
          origins. I would like to it as my by-name in the SCA, so I am looking
          for documentation of it being used pre-1500's.

          It was also my fraternal grandmother's maiden name as well. Sadly I
          don't know much of that side of my family. My parents divorced when I
          was a wee lad. So for personal side I am looking for my "roots" per
          say. I do know my grandmother's full name (Stephine Josephine Cermak)
          and she was from Puchov.

          All your help is very much appreciated.

          IYS
          Andrew


          --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, "quokkaqueen" <quokkaqueen@...> wrote:
          >
          > Are you interested in the meaning of the byname, or in the sound?
          > (Websters online says it means Robin, as in the little bird.)
          >
          > When I go into uni tomorrow I'll look at some books in the library
          for
          > you. :)
          >
          > ~Asfridhr
          >
          > --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, "Andreas Van Hassen" <adhazen1974@>
          wrote:
          > >
          > > I need some help on finding documentations for a Bohemian by-name
          and I
          > > was hoping someone would be able to point me in to the right
          direction.
          > >
          > > The by-name is Èermák. (Cermak)
          > >
          > > Thank you
          > >
          > > Andrew
          > >
          >
        • quokkaqueen
          Andreas, I m not an expert at all on Bohemian or Czech names, but I ve had a little luck with looking at books. I only say a little because I have found
          Message 4 of 8 , Apr 8, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            Andreas,
            I'm not an expert at all on Bohemian or Czech names, but I've had a
            little luck with looking at books.

            I only say a little because I have found 'Černák' (from černá; black,
            adjective) as a byname, but not Čermák (robin, noun). But it seems to
            be that one little letter that makes all the difference.

            If Alastair is still on the list, would he know how likely it is that
            the n may be substituted for an m in pronouncing the two words? Would
            they be good ingredients for a tongue twister?

            Here is the scant information I've found on Černák, I hope it helps.

            Dobrava Moldanová "Naše příjmení" (Mladá Fronta Praha, 1983)

            p.53
            Čermák, - it's there, but no dated examples!
            Černa, - 1052, Cerna
            Černáč, Černák, Čerňáč.
            - 1383, Johannes Czrnak,
            - 1409, Černák z Strážkovic
            Černec, - 1425
            Černík, - 1318, Czirnik
            Černín, - 1411, panossie Czrnyna z Chudienicz
            Černoch,
            - 1308 frater Zcernochonis
            - 1406 Nic. Czrnoch

            Josef Beneš "O Český příjmeních" (Praha, Nakladatelství Československé
            akademie věd, 1962)
            p.264
            Černáč, Černák, Čerňáč.
            - 1383, Johannes Cznak,
            - 1409, Černák z Strážkovic

            I double checked, and both sources have spelt Johannes Cz(r)nak
            differently. Thankfully Beneš gives a source:
            W.W Tomek, "Základy starého místopisu pražského, Nové Město" p. 309

            Now, Tomek died in 1905, so I'm sure his book could be found online
            somewhere, I'm just not sure were to look.

            Looking at the spelling of the pre-1600 examples, it seems you might
            be looking for a Czirmak or Czrmak, but the only thing I can find so
            far is the 19th century German doctor Johann Nepomuk Czermak.
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Nepomuk_Czermak

            As I said, I hope this helps a little.
            ~Asfridhr

            --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, "Andreas Van Hassen" <adhazen1974@...> wrote:
            >
            > I am interested in its meaning and sound as well as history of its
            > origins. I would like to it as my by-name in the SCA, so I am looking
            > for documentation of it being used pre-1500's.
            <<snip>>
          • quokkaqueen
            Gyah! č and Č are lower and upper case C-hacek respectively. ě is e-hacek ň is n-hacek ř is r-hacek To make this extra-confusing, if
            Message 5 of 8 , Apr 8, 2008
            • 0 Attachment
              Gyah!
              č and Č are lower and upper case C-hacek respectively.
              ě is e-hacek
              ň is n-hacek
              ř is r-hacek

              To make this extra-confusing, if you copy and paste the 'gibberish'
              text into Google it will correct it and search for the word including
              the hacek-bits. That's because it's the Unicode format for the
              symbols. I forgot that Yahoo has fits over these sorts of things, sorry.

              ~Asfridhr

              --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, "quokkaqueen" <quokkaqueen@...> wrote:
              >
              > Andreas,
              > I'm not an expert at all on Bohemian or Czech names, but I've had a
              > little luck with looking at books.
              <<snip>>
            • quokkaqueen
              Doing a bit better after this bout in the library. Source: Witold Taszycki (ed.), _S{l/}ownik Staropolskich Nazw Osobowych_ (Dictionary of Old Polish Personal
              Message 6 of 8 , Apr 10, 2008
              • 0 Attachment
                Doing a bit better after this bout in the library.

                Source:
                Witold Taszycki (ed.), _S{l/}ownik Staropolskich Nazw Osobowych_
                (Dictionary of Old Polish Personal Names), vol. I (Wroc{l/}aw:
                Zak{l/}ad Narodowy Imienia Ossoli{n'}skich, Polska Akademia Nauk,
                1965-1967)

                p.438
                sn. Czyrmaczewic(z}
                Clymek Cyrmaczewyc, 1435

                sn. Czyrmak, Czermak
                Paulus Czirmak, 1394
                Ex oposito Czirmak, 1419
                Iuncho Czirmak, 1434
                Super donum Czirmak, 1438
                Czirmakoni, 1421
                Cirmakonis, 1592
                Der Iuchne, Czirmaken von 1430
                Cermag, 1416
                Czermak, 1417
                Cermaconi Ruteno, 1417
                Iunchno, fillius Cermaconis, 1430

                Although this is a Polish book, looking at the sources used, it seems
                they're from the Greater Poland/Wielkopolska area, which might include
                Silesia, which is now partially within the Czech republic.
                (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silesia)

                So, it's a long shot, but I'll continue hunting references.
                ~Asfridhr
              • Andrew
                Thank you so much for your help. I owe you so much, if there is anything I can ever do to repay you please just ask. Andreas ... seems ... include
                Message 7 of 8 , Apr 11, 2008
                • 0 Attachment
                  Thank you so much for your help. I owe you so much, if there is
                  anything I can ever do to repay you please just ask.

                  Andreas

                  --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, "quokkaqueen" <quokkaqueen@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Doing a bit better after this bout in the library.
                  >
                  > Source:
                  > Witold Taszycki (ed.), _S{l/}ownik Staropolskich Nazw Osobowych_
                  > (Dictionary of Old Polish Personal Names), vol. I (Wroc{l/}aw:
                  > Zak{l/}ad Narodowy Imienia Ossoli{n'}skich, Polska Akademia Nauk,
                  > 1965-1967)
                  >
                  > p.438
                  > sn. Czyrmaczewic(z}
                  > Clymek Cyrmaczewyc, 1435
                  >
                  > sn. Czyrmak, Czermak
                  > Paulus Czirmak, 1394
                  > Ex oposito Czirmak, 1419
                  > Iuncho Czirmak, 1434
                  > Super donum Czirmak, 1438
                  > Czirmakoni, 1421
                  > Cirmakonis, 1592
                  > Der Iuchne, Czirmaken von 1430
                  > Cermag, 1416
                  > Czermak, 1417
                  > Cermaconi Ruteno, 1417
                  > Iunchno, fillius Cermaconis, 1430
                  >
                  > Although this is a Polish book, looking at the sources used, it
                  seems
                  > they're from the Greater Poland/Wielkopolska area, which might
                  include
                  > Silesia, which is now partially within the Czech republic.
                  > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silesia)
                  >
                  > So, it's a long shot, but I'll continue hunting references.
                  > ~Asfridhr
                  >
                • quokkaqueen
                  No, you ve been a fantastic distraction from essay and report writing, I should be thanking you for giving me something to do that doesn t involve reading
                  Message 8 of 8 , Apr 12, 2008
                  • 0 Attachment
                    No, you've been a fantastic distraction from essay and report writing,
                    I should be thanking you for giving me something to do that doesn't
                    involve reading botany articles. :)

                    But if I find anything else, I will pass it on.
                    ~Asfridhr

                    --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew" <adhazen1974@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Thank you so much for your help. I owe you so much, if there is
                    > anything I can ever do to repay you please just ask.
                    >
                    > Andreas
                  Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.