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Note to self, avoid Muscovite women.

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  • Rick Orli
    So, I was reading the recent Biography of Peter the Great, and ran into an interesting factoid that for the first time, in the late 1600s, Muscovite ladies
    Message 1 of 6 , Dec 21, 2007
      So, I was reading the recent Biography of Peter the Great, and ran into
      an interesting factoid that for the first time, in the late 1600s,
      Muscovite ladies started to drop the ancient custom of blacking their
      teeth, (considered immodest to show one's teeth when smiling or
      talking).
      At least they took occasional baths, that's something.
      -Rick
    • Tim Nalley
      Yeah, that charming habit is very common in Asia so I speculate that it was yet another immitation of the Khans. On the bath thing, very common in Russian
      Message 2 of 6 , Dec 21, 2007
        Yeah, that charming habit is very common in Asia so I
        speculate that it was yet another immitation of the
        Khans. On the bath thing, very common in Russian
        society in period. European visitors always remarked
        on the unhealthiness of the vapors of the sauna. Were
        there comments like this about Poles? I have read that
        they favored saunas too?
        'dok, world traveler out of time
        --- Rick Orli <orlirva@...> wrote:

        > So, I was reading the recent Biography of Peter the
        > Great, and ran into
        > an interesting factoid that for the first time, in
        > the late 1600s,
        > Muscovite ladies started to drop the ancient custom
        > of blacking their
        > teeth, (considered immodest to show one's teeth when
        > smiling or
        > talking).
        > At least they took occasional baths, that's
        > something.
        > -Rick
        >
        >
        >


        Best Regards,
        'dok
        "Some people have sacred cows and they make very tasty steaks"


        ____________________________________________________________________________________
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      • jennifer knox
        That s fascinating! What s the name of the book you found that in? Anyone else have sources on the blackened teeth thing? Does anyone know what they used to do
        Message 3 of 6 , Dec 21, 2007
          That's fascinating!
          What's the name of the book you found that in? Anyone else have sources on the blackened teeth thing?
          Does anyone know what they used to do it?
          Anya


          Tim Nalley <mordakus@...> wrote:
          Yeah, that charming habit is very common in Asia so I
          speculate that it was yet another immitation of the
          Khans. On the bath thing, very common in Russian
          society in period. European visitors always remarked
          on the unhealthiness of the vapors of the sauna. Were
          there comments like this about Poles? I have read that
          they favored saunas too?
          'dok, world traveler out of time
          --- Rick Orli <orlirva@...> wrote:

          > So, I was reading the recent Biography of Peter the
          > Great, and ran into
          > an interesting factoid that for the first time, in
          > the late 1600s,
          > Muscovite ladies started to drop the ancient custom
          > of blacking their
          > teeth, (considered immodest to show one's teeth when
          > smiling or
          > talking).
          > At least they took occasional baths, that's
          > something.
          > -Rick
          >
          >
          >

          Best Regards,
          'dok
          "Some people have sacred cows and they make very tasty steaks"

          __________________________________________________________
          Looking for last minute shopping deals?
          Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping





          "We must judge men not so much by what they do, as by what they make us feel that they have it in them to do." --Samuel Butler

          ---------------------------------
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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Tim Nalley
          Oh, that was in one of Verdansky s tomes. Depending one your comfort with his scholarship the theory is verified or disproved. It is a very commonly written
          Message 4 of 6 , Dec 21, 2007
            Oh, that was in one of Verdansky's tomes. Depending
            one your comfort with his scholarship the theory is
            verified or disproved. It is a very commonly written
            about practice by scholars further East though, even
            Marco Polo. The most common thoery beingthat before
            modern dentistry, balckening teeth was polite in upper
            circles. Too scarey to specilate upon, IMHO! But very
            practical.....
            'dok
            --- jennifer knox <jeniferknox@...> wrote:

            > That's fascinating!
            > What's the name of the book you found that in?
            > Anyone else have sources on the blackened teeth
            > thing?
            > Does anyone know what they used to do it?
            > Anya
            >
            >
            > Tim Nalley <mordakus@...> wrote:
            > Yeah, that charming habit is very common
            > in Asia so I
            > speculate that it was yet another immitation of the
            > Khans. On the bath thing, very common in Russian
            > society in period. European visitors always remarked
            > on the unhealthiness of the vapors of the sauna.
            > Were
            > there comments like this about Poles? I have read
            > that
            > they favored saunas too?
            > 'dok, world traveler out of time
            > --- Rick Orli <orlirva@...> wrote:
            >
            > > So, I was reading the recent Biography of Peter
            > the
            > > Great, and ran into
            > > an interesting factoid that for the first time, in
            > > the late 1600s,
            > > Muscovite ladies started to drop the ancient
            > custom
            > > of blacking their
            > > teeth, (considered immodest to show one's teeth
            > when
            > > smiling or
            > > talking).
            > > At least they took occasional baths, that's
            > > something.
            > > -Rick
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            > Best Regards,
            > 'dok
            > "Some people have sacred cows and they make very
            > tasty steaks"
            >
            >
            __________________________________________________________
            > Looking for last minute shopping deals?
            > Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
            >
            http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > "We must judge men not so much by what they do, as
            > by what they make us feel that they have it in them
            > to do." --Samuel Butler
            >
            > ---------------------------------
            > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them
            > fast with Yahoo! Search.
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been
            > removed]
            >
            >


            Best Regards,
            'dok
            "Some people have sacred cows and they make very tasty steaks"


            ____________________________________________________________________________________
            Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
            http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
          • Rick Orli
            This particular book was by Lindsey Hughes. He also quoted an ambassador to Moscow who reported in detail on bathing habits, if I recall there were 4 varieties
            Message 5 of 6 , Dec 21, 2007
              This particular book was by Lindsey Hughes.
              He also quoted an ambassador to Moscow who reported in detail on
              bathing habits, if I recall there were 4 varieties practiced by
              nobles... one was to vigorously row out to the middle of a river,
              presumabally mostly ice free, and, sweating, roll back first (scuba
              style) into the water. The most common was a sauna followed by a cold
              water dip.

              I recall kass mccan (reconstructing history) telling about doing 16th
              C. Japanese noblewoman 100% accurately at one event, black teeth and
              all, and how everybody was so grossed out.
              -Rick

              --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, Tim Nalley <mordakus@...> wrote:
              >
              > Oh, that was in one of Verdansky's tomes. Depending
              > one your comfort with his scholarship the theory is
              > verified or disproved. It is a very commonly written
              > about practice by scholars further East though, even
              > Marco Polo. The most common thoery beingthat before
              > modern dentistry, balckening teeth was polite in upper
              > circles. Too scarey to specilate upon, IMHO! But very
              > practical.....
              > 'dok
              > --- jennifer knox <jeniferknox@...> wrote:
              >
              > > That's fascinating!
              > > What's the name of the book you found that in?
              > > Anyone else have sources on the blackened teeth
              > > thing?
              > > Does anyone know what they used to do it?
              > > Anya
              > >
              > >
              > > Tim Nalley <mordakus@...> wrote:
              > > Yeah, that charming habit is very common
              > > in Asia so I
              > > speculate that it was yet another immitation of the
              > > Khans. On the bath thing, very common in Russian
              > > society in period. European visitors always remarked
              > > on the unhealthiness of the vapors of the sauna.
              > > Were
              > > there comments like this about Poles? I have read
              > > that
              > > they favored saunas too?
              > > 'dok, world traveler out of time
              > > --- Rick Orli <orlirva@...> wrote:
              > >
              > > > So, I was reading the recent Biography of Peter
              > > the
              > > > Great, and ran into
              > > > an interesting factoid that for the first time, in
              > > > the late 1600s,
              > > > Muscovite ladies started to drop the ancient
              > > custom
              > > > of blacking their
              > > > teeth, (considered immodest to show one's teeth
              > > when
              > > > smiling or
              > > > talking).
              > > > At least they took occasional baths, that's
              > > > something.
              > > > -Rick
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > >
            • jenne@fiedlerfamily.net
              While baths, including steam baths, were known and used all over Europe, by the 1600s physicians began to warn very seriously against the dangerous opening of
              Message 6 of 6 , Jan 7, 2008
                While baths, including steam baths, were known and used all over Europe,
                by the 1600s physicians began to warn very seriously against the dangerous
                opening of the pores that washing with water, and particularly steam,
                could cause. Bathing in Western Europe fell off in the late 1500s and well
                into the 1600s, so at one point wiping the body with clean linen and
                changing one's underlinen was apparently considered more healthful than
                bathing.

                -- Jadwiga, still fiddling with her document on bathing.

                > Yeah, that charming habit is very common in Asia so I
                > speculate that it was yet another immitation of the
                > Khans. On the bath thing, very common in Russian
                > society in period. European visitors always remarked
                > on the unhealthiness of the vapors of the sauna. Were
                > there comments like this about Poles? I have read that
                > they favored saunas too?
                > 'dok, world traveler out of time
                > --- Rick Orli <orlirva@...> wrote:



                --
                -- Jenne Heise / Jadwiga Zajaczkowa
                jenne@...
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