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Re: Russian Embroidery book on eBay

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  • Larry Bosonjak Granberg
    I always thought, and was taught that the most elaborate embroderies that we associate with the different ethnic groups were products of the 19TH C and on with
    Message 1 of 6 , Dec 5, 2007
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      I always thought, and was taught that the most elaborate embroderies
      that we associate with the different ethnic groups were products of
      the 19TH C and on with development and refinement of materials. If
      you look at surviving examples of the late 18TH C and the earliest
      part of the 19TH C in the Rusyn, Slovak, Hungarian triangle you see
      that most is corded embroidery or corded appliqué. There are some
      examples of cross-stich but they are done in a very heavy thread or
      cord so that the result is a filled but rather coarse work no where
      near the fine examples of later years. From what I have seen of
      Eastern Ukrainian and Russian work the same holds true.
      But I have to confess that I have concentrated on merchant and lower
      classes I really can not comment on the royals. However a lot of what
      we would call "folk" embroidery is often commemorative but are more
      really visual cues based on Pagan belief. So a Royal who has status
      in the Church would not be wearing something that has the
      embroideries consisting of the Arms of Mokrosh/the the that looks
      like a Amerind teepee, or Spiders, or Deer, or Dazboh/Dazbog-the
      symbol that looks like a blending of a cross or a rose,
      or even that motive that looks
      like a rake with a very short handle. This was a harvest symbol that
      was used all over the Slavic regions but especially by the Sorbians
      and Rugen/Rani Slavs who bitterly resisted both Christianization and
      Germanization. It was only by stubbornness of the commoners that such
      embroidery and symbols survived. So wearing garments that featured
      such embroidery meant different things at different times.

      On that EBay seller mentioned. That company/individual is extremely
      overpriced - if you do a froogle search on the title of the book you
      can find servicable copies for half or less. Not so long ago I was
      interested in a book that was featured by the seller, on Hutsul
      customs. The seller wanted 90$ U.S. when I wrote to the publisher I
      got it for 22 $ U.S. for a revised edition with more content as well.
      wrote:
      >
      > It looks like cross stitch. Is cross stitch period? I love doing
      it, but
      > have been told that it isn't period. Maybe not for westerners?
      >
      > On Dec 4, 2007 7:24 AM, Su Ralston <suralston@...> wrote:
      >
      > > In case someone else is interested... I already own a copy.
      > >
      > > Folk Embroidery of the USSR by Nina Klimova $40 plus $4.25
      shipping
      > >
      > >
      > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
      ViewItem&item=360001866367&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123
      > >
      > > Su
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • L.M. Kies
      Greetings from Sofya. ... I fear that you ve been mis-informed. Cross stitch is _very_ period for Western Europe. http://www.wymarc.com/
      Message 2 of 6 , Dec 5, 2007
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        Greetings from Sofya.

        >
        >It looks like cross stitch. Is cross stitch period? I love doing it, but
        >have been told that it isn't period. Maybe not for westerners?
        >

        I fear that you've been mis-informed. Cross stitch is _very_ period for Western Europe.

        http://www.wymarc.com/
        http://home.earthlink.net/~wymarc/asoot/cross/cross.htm
        http://www.advancenet.net/~jscole/counted.html
        http://www.bayrose.org/wkneedle/Articles/cross_stitch.html
        http://www.eleanorlebrun.com/GermanPurseCharts.htm

        I have searched, so far in vain, for medieval Russian examples of the same. Archeological/grave finds are strongly biased toward metal thread embroidery, which is not suitable for cross-stitch techniques, and other surviving garments/embroideries are almost exclusively ecclesiastical and based on opus-anglicanum-type embroidery techniques. So I'm still looking for the origin of those wonderful Russian/Ukrainian cross-stitch folk embroidery techniques.

        Sofya




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • L.M. Kies
        Greetings from Sofya. Many of the pagan motifs you refer to are commonly found on medieval Russian artifacts - gold enamels, medallions, embroidery, etc. -
        Message 3 of 6 , Dec 5, 2007
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          Greetings from Sofya.

          Many of the "pagan" motifs you refer to are commonly found on medieval Russian artifacts - gold enamels, medallions, embroidery, etc. - but not in cross-stitch.

          At your service,

          Sofya

          >------- Original Message -------
          >
          >However a lot of what we would call "folk" embroidery is often commemorative but are more
          really visual cues based on Pagan belief. So a Royal who has status
          in the Church would not be wearing something that has the
          embroideries consisting of the Arms of Mokrosh/the the that looks
          like a Amerind teepee, or Spiders, or Deer, or Dazboh/Dazbog-the
          symbol that looks like a blending of a cross or a rose,
          or even that motive that looks
          like a rake with a very short handle.




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • panimagdalena56
          To tag on to this discussion, the cross stitch stitch is VERY period. But modern subjects and styles using that stitch aren t. I was told that one of the
          Message 4 of 6 , Dec 13, 2007
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            To tag on to this discussion, the cross stitch stitch is VERY period.
            But modern subjects and styles using that stitch aren't.

            I was told that one of the first samples of "Polish embroidery" I did
            in the SCA was an example of folk embroidery and not period. I didn't
            know any better and didn't have much to base my embroidery on but a
            blip from the internet. So the bodice was packed away.

            Since then I have documented this style of "Kashubian" (an area in
            northern Poland) to late period on an altar cloth and woman's veil.

            The sites Sofya listed are excellent sites for samples. I have found
            with my Polish research that although I may not have documentation
            right now, that doesn't mean it won't surface later.

            Remember, never say never...

            Magdalena Gdanska
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