Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [sig] Device/Badge Question

Expand Messages
  • jjbober4@patmedia.net
    Okay, you ve touched on what is probably my greatest SCA pet-peeve... Somewhere I at home amongst my ancient documents, such as Copora from the mid-80 s and a
    Message 1 of 13 , Nov 1, 2007
    • 0 Attachment
      Okay, you've touched on what is probably my greatest SCA pet-peeve...

      Somewhere I at home amongst my ancient documents, such as Copora from the
      mid-80's and a first edition Known World Handbook, I have the Articles of
      Incorporation for the SCA which says that it is "dedicated to the research and
      recreation of pre-seventeenth century western culture". Not western
      European...just western. Even in the on-line version of Copora, in the
      introduction, it clearly says "European". If I remember correctly, Europe ends
      at the Urals. Thus we are not "foreign visitors".

      Yes, SCA heraldry is based upon English heraldry of the high middle ages, thus we
      lose out and such things as Polish cypher heraldry - but if you're creative you
      can make it pass nonetheless. :)

      Jan - East
      (soapboxing too early in the morning)

      On Wed Oct 31 17:23 , 'L.M. Kies' sent:

      Greetings from Sofya!

      Similar "runic' markings are shown on the bottoms of ceramic pots in
      Kolchin's "Drevnyaya Rus: Byt' i Kul'tura". There is a greater variety of motifs
      than in the princely "runes" shown in Paul's article, but they still aren't very
      registerable. Contact me off list if you want to see them. (The list doesn't
      allow attachments.)

      In the end, I'm afraid you're stuck doing "Western style" heraldry with
      motifs that are meaningful for your Russian persona. This isn't unreasonable,
      since in many ways, we Slavs are foreign visitors in the Western European SCA.
      Anyway, as an example, my device has an owl on it. The Russian word for owl is
      "sova" which is similar to my persona's name. And while owls are not symbolic of
      wisdom in Russian folklore the way they are in Western Europe, St. Sophia is a
      representation of wisdom.
    • L.M. Kies
      Greetings from Sofya, Even though Western European culture is not officially in the governing documents of the SCA (although it has been debated ad nauseum
      Message 2 of 13 , Nov 1, 2007
      • 0 Attachment
        Greetings from Sofya,

        Even though "Western European" culture is not officially in the governing documents of the SCA (although it has been debated ad nauseum on other lists, mostly based on outdated versions of Corpora), the SCA as it is actually played, is overwhelmingly based on the Western European Middle Ages. Tournaments, heraldry, feudal ranks, chivalry, courtly love, the Renaissance, etc. which are central to the culture of the SCA are not central to Medieval Russian culture. (I can't speak to other Eastern European cultures.) We can't even submit our names for registration in their period spelling, because most of us Slavs use the Cyrillic alphabet.

        The definition of where "Europe" ends is a whole debate in itself. For most of SCA period, Russia did not extend to the Urals, so I have trouble defining "medieval Europe" that far to the East. And based on most of the period writings by foreign visitors to the Russian lands I've read, they hardly seem to think of Russia as "European" either. But, of course, Corpora relies on the modern definition of "Europe" which is usually defined as ending at the Urals, except for a few radical scholars.

        And no matter where "Europe" is, or even what Corpora says (or used to say), the SCA has always been a big tent with poor enforcement of what few rules of inclusion/exclusion there were/are.

        So we're in. Just not necessarily our version of heraldry. Or our alphabet. ;-)

        One suggestion for those who would like to register those funky "tamga" things that have no proper heraldic description - try submitting a roughly similar form that is registerable, then using artistic license to draw it your way once it passes.

        Sofya

        >------- Original Message -------
        >
        >Okay, you've touched on what is probably my greatest SCA pet-peeve...

        Somewhere I at home amongst my ancient documents, such as Copora from the
        mid-80's and a first edition Known World Handbook, I have the Articles of
        Incorporation for the SCA which says that it is "dedicated to the research and
        recreation of pre-seventeenth century western culture".




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • David
        Dear SIG, Thank you for all your help. I looked and the Slovo newsletter and I was really impressed with the abundance of great articles. It did my heart
        Message 3 of 13 , Nov 2, 2007
        • 0 Attachment
          Dear SIG,

          Thank you for all your help. I looked and the Slovo newsletter and I
          was really impressed with the abundance of great articles. It did my
          heart good to see how much y'all have researched medieval Russia. I
          think I looked and read most of every issue. I am really glad that SIG
          is here and I found it. Y''all are great.

          Again, spaseebo,

          David


          --- In sig@yahoogroups.com, "Amy Tubbs" <ivanova.doch@...> wrote:
          >
          > There are articles in the Slovo that are helpful. I would recommend
          > starting at this page under Heraldry:
          > http://www.goldschp.net/SIG/slovo/subject_index.html#Heraldry
          >
          > On 10/31/07, David H. stonefiddle@... wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Dear SIG,
          > >
          > > Another thing I would ask for advice on is how to come up with a
          design
          > > for a Device and/or Badge. ( I don't fully understand what the
          difference is
          > > betwixt the two. ) Are there any websites that can help with
          creating a
          > > uniquely russian design?
          > >
          > >
          > > David
          > >
          > > __________________________________________________________
          > > Boo! Scare away worms, viruses and so much more! Try Windows Live
          OneCare!
          > >
          > >
          http://onecare.live.com/standard/en-us/purchase/trial.aspx?s_cid=wl_hotm\
          ailnews
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.